Dr. Stanley Milgram defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment; a desire to please; or is it a need to go along with the group? As some students watched the film Obedience, they laughed at the people receiving the shocks. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did some of the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How and when did they decide to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? What did you learn that you didn't know before you watched this film?
26 comments:
Obediance is not a word that I associate with human but more of my puppy. I don't think children are supose to be obediant to their teachers even though that is what some teachers think. I believe that obedience is the act of mindlessly following and ignoring your own opinions and emotions. When obedience and humans are thought to be attached I kind of think it's demeaning and rude. But in this case I believe that it's not only the fear of punishment that keeps the men pushing the button knowing they are hurting someone else. I think that the most important part was when one of the men said " he wasn't going to be responsible for someone else being hurt, the experimenter replied saying that he was responsible not the man. Immediatly this removed all emotional ties and gave him a free conscience. Right after the scientist took the "blame" for the pain the "student" the "teacher" immediately continued with the shockings. It was shocking how many people disregarded the other persons pain and just continued with the experiment.
Though generally looked upon in society as respectable characteristic, the power of obedience can be fazing and have dire consequences. I believe that obedience stems from both a desire to please a person or thing of a higher power or standing as well as the need to go along with the group. In a simple form, a dog is obedient to their owner who can provide them with food and has the power in the relationship. When man is encouraged to be obedient, it is from a similar animal need to please. I believe that the laughing derived from nerves—the uncomfortable situation the people were in watching others shocked and hurt. This would correlate with the need to relieve tension, laughing to ease the uncomfortable situation. While administering the shocks, many volunteers tried to object to the scientist’s “needs” to continue on, though looked remorseful after administering the shock. Some pretended not to hear the cries from the other side of the microphone, ignoring the pain of another human and listening to the researchers. It was scary for me to learn that people would blindly listen to the researchers even if they did not agree with what was being done: ignoring their conscience to complete their part of the experiment and obey the scientists.
After watching this movie, I think that people are obedient to people in authority because generally people believe that people in authority know what they are doing and it is human nature to want to be a part of a group. The laughter, in my opinion, was due to nervousness and was used as a way to relieve the stress that hurting people was causing them. The teachers didn't actually find anything funny, instead, they were afraid that they might be hurting someone so they laughed. The teachers were simply “sheep” in the experiment and 50% of them followed exactly what they were supposed to do, even when the voltage was high and the actor was screaming. Some teachers refused to keep going when the voltage got high and the man said he was having problems with his heart. The scientist said that they had to continue because they had no choice, but the ones who stopped all said that they do have a choice. It got increasingly difficult to be a teacher because the man was getting hurt and their conscience was telling them to stop, but the scientist said to continue. Once one teacher learned that it would not be his responsibility if the man got hurt, he continued to give shocks to the man and although he struggled with his conscious, he was obedient and followed every order given to him. I identified with the volunteers who stopped giving shocks once the man started yelling because I have a low tolerance for pain and wouldn't have been able to stand hearing someone else in that much pain and begging to get out. I learned that people can easily be influenced by an authority figure because many people are followers that want to be a part of a group and if being a part of that group means ignoring your conscious, many people would do it.
I personally think there isn't one set reason a person is obedient, instead it's motivated be an amalgam of pressures and human instincts, one of which I think connects to this idea of uncertainty. Uncertainty and paranoia translates into the human tendency to look to our environment and our peers to inform our evaluations of our own identities, system of morality, and the reality we live in. We all have this confidence in who we are at our core, mistakenly assuming that whatever situation you place a person in they'll act in a way consistent with their presumed persona, but the way human societies are orchestrated let us forget how pathetically pliable human beings can be. At the heart, we're all motivated by the singular primal need for survival, we'll mold and adapt in order to do so to even the slightest degree, and a person will act the way they believe they need to survive, as misguided as it may be. We've just learned about the extent of indoctrination in Nazi Germany, in the case of many of the indoctrinated their entire identity and reality hinged on their obedience, and those who weren't obedient didn't survive. But that's an example of a more literal extreme cases, this is present in everyone, and can still be seen in the cases of societies without indoctrination, like we witnessed in the Milgram experiment. The brain is wired to instinctually avoid pain (physical and mental), we're obedient to avoid the shame or pain of punishment, we desire to please because we associate the approval of the authority figure with our own success and ensured survival, and we feel a need to go along with the group because the average person has negative feelings when they are left out or ostracized.
These are all negative associations that exist with the consequences of being disobedient, and in most cases our own instincts to avoid these are able to override our conscience. Many of the teachers in the experiment were seen laughing, and perhaps students laughed while watching the footage in other classes, I doubt they found the situation genuinely funny, I do believe they were trying to relieve the tension they may have felt from doing something they knew was wrong, or to cover up that fact by laughing as if what they were doing was okay. It's one of those physical mannerisms that can often be seen as a bubbling over of emotion to the surface, I know when I feel awkward I often try to crack a joke. Most volunteers either looked obviously uncomfortable, anxious, or embarrassed as the test increased, while others looked as though they were trying to maintain a professional and collected facade while fighting those very feelings. I've seen the experiment before in psych, but watching it again got me focusing on the greater implications of obedience as a society.
I saw the documentary on the Milgram experiment in psychology and when we watched it in that setting, we were more focused on how the 'teacher' made their decisions and the influence the experimenter had on the 'teacher'. After learning that Dr. Milgram lost his parents in the death camps, and that he conducted this experiment to prove that it is human nature to "follow orders". It is however not an excuse to justify harming other people. It is sickening to watch the 'teacher' continue to shock the learner after he is told that he would not be to blame or be held responsible. You shouldn't stop physically harming someone because you won't get in trouble for it. You should do it because you are hurting another human being which is immoral.
This had to be one of the more interesting films we have watched thus far mainly because it has seemed to influence me the most and have the greatest impact on me. If 50% of the men didn't stop hurting the learner, that makes me feel sick when I think about the Germans that didn't care that they were hurting other human beings, they just were following orders like they were supposed to. I believe that this is outrageous because I believe everyone should feel terrible if they know they are hurting another human being especially for a reason that they don't have. I believe this was a very well set up experiment because the actors would never be getting hurt but they made it seem like they were and were really able to sell it to put the teacher in a decision making situation. This whole thing just makes me think that how come people never took charge, is it because they were afraid top refuse orders or was it because they just didn't think it was a big deal. All of the Nazi's that never said anything and didn't step up are indeed guilty when saying they never were.
I think obedience is encouraged by a person’s nature to keep themselves safe. Defiance puts them in danger if they are not in a position of authority. The laughing that many of the teachers exhibited during the experiments was understandable since it was a way of expressing how uncomfortable they were becoming. The nervous laughter shows that they are trying to keep the situation in the lighthearted tone that the experiment began in. The teacher could sense things were getting bad and didn’t want that to happen. Today, laughter is associated with things being funny but it also shows the release of tension. I'm glad that the volunteers realized that what they were doing was wrong and hurting somebody, even though less than half were able to stop the experiment and stay firm with their decision. A lot of pressure came from the mini-Hitler that was overseeing the experiment. With the urging from him, the volunteer was pressured into continuing the experiment and many believed that it was not their responsibility. This documentary gave me a new perspective on what makes a person a perpetrator.
I think people are willing to be obedient if it seems to make their life better. If belonging to a group means being obedient, they will do it, if being obedient removes attention from them, they will do it, I think as long as they can justify it or tell them selves it is whats best, they are fine doing it. I don't think many people would laugh it this thinking it was funny, seeing this clearly makes a normal person uncomfortable, and laughter can be a way to cope with the situation. Laughter can also make them think it is less serious and remove tension. A handful of volunteers began to insist it be stopped, and refused to go on, while others succumbed to the experimenter. Any person who stopped was told the same thing, continuing was essential, you hold no responsibility, you have to continue. I would like to identify with the people who began protesting, but I'm not sure how i would've acted in the situation. I know that I don't let people make me do things i don't want to do, so I feel like I could've told the experimenter to stop. The teachers often decided to stop when they heard screams and the students complaints of heart problems. I never knew of these experiments and i think it was very interesting as well as disturbing to see how people handle situations like that.
I think that fear of punishment contributes most to the obedience. In this experiment, I think many of these people were afraid they would be punished and not receive their check for $425. Moreover, I think in this case, the people giving the shock were laughing because they thought it was funny and a little awkward. Up until the man talked about his heart problems, most people laughed after giving shocks because the guy’s cries of pain sounded corny. I identified with the first guy giving the shocks; in all honesty I would have probably thought it was a little funny administering 45 volts and hearing the man give a little cry as it hurt. However, once I worked my way up to around 75-100 volts, I think I would have realized that the whole experiment wasn’t ok, and walked out. The most ridiculous part of the experiment was when the man complained about his heart hurting, I think that it’s ridiculous that anyone would even continue after that; especially that before the experiment even happened the man identified that he had heart problems. I learned that an authoritative figure has a ton of power over people that are submissive from him and in this case, the doctor paying the teachers to shock the students.
The dictionary definition of "Obedience" is "conformity to a monastic rule or the authority of a religious superior, especially on the part of one who has vowed such conformance." This being said, the things that kept the men and soldiers going with the punishments were the fear, but yet the comfort that they would not be the ones, or so they thought, being held accountable for their actions since it was just them "following orders". In the experiment, although it said that around 50% of the men finished through the entire experiment, you could see the distress on their faces. One man started to cry. Seeing this made me realize that yes, they did something wrong, and yes, hands down they should be held accountable for their actions. But I can see how if someone who had way more power than you, told you to do something bad to someone else or they would do it to you, that you would be scared and you would follow through to save yourself. And I truly want to believe that was the cause during the Halocaust, I want to believe that these men wouldn't do these horrible things to people on a daily basis if it was up to them. It really is sickening to think about.
Humans are expected to obey those who are more powerful than them; but obedience can become concerning when one puts their morals aside to obey commands. People feel the need to obey to please others and not stand out. The embarrassment of standing up for what you think is right is worse than being obedient. I think that some people have trouble finding courage to stand up to those who have more power than them. In the Milgram Experiment, it becomes obvious how easily people will follow commands. Very few people were brave enough to stand up to the experimenter and stop hurting the student. Some of the teachers even laughed when they heard the victim cry out, because they were nervous and didn't know what to do. Even though most of the teachers knew that administering the shock was wrong and wanted to stop, they kept going because they were told they had to. This shows how it is human nature to conform and do what you are told. This documentary helps to explain why so many Nazi's did so many immoral things, just because they were told to.
I think that in the Milgram Experiment, obedience was encouraged most by a desire to please and a need to go along with the group. The teachers saw the experimenter as their superior, an authority figure who knew what he was talking about, so they felt a desire to do as he said in order to please him. I also think they felt pressure to continue with the shocks because they were told that as a member of the experiment, they had to do so. When I watched this film last semester in Psychology, I was completely astounded by the laughter that some of the teachers exhibited when they heard the shouts and complaints of the student, and I still find it very interesting. I do not think that these participants were laughing because they found the student's pain to be funny, but rather because they were very uncomfortable. Laughter at first seemed to me like an incredibly inappropriate response to the situation, but after watching the film for the second time I think that that it was a natural reflex to the discomfort or embarrassment that many of the participants felt. This film showed me how easy it is for people to do things that go against their conscience when they are put into situations that encourage obedience.
I thought this experiment was very interesting because it really separated the strong from the weak, the strong would stop doing the experiment and stand up for the defenseless person who was getting shocked, and the weaker would just continue the experiment. I think that obedience is brought on by wanting to go along with the group and not wanting to stand out. Some people laughed because they were put in an uncomfortable situation and that was a way to relieve stress and also maybe to make the situation lighter and not a serious. All of the teachers who were administering the shocks really didn't feel comfortable and didn't like shocking the other person, and most people would press the lever very fast so they could shock the person as little as possible revealing that they really didn't want to cause much harm. The strong people would stop the experiment when the man would complain of his heart hurting because they didn't want to seriously hurt him. Before watching this film I didn't think that many people would have the courage to stop doing the experiment, but I am proud of them for doing it.
Im the Migram Experiment, 50% of the the 'teachers' continued with the experiment eventhough they knew they were inflicting pain on another human being. This very much surprised me, but I think the reasoning behind it was because they were pressured by the administrators of the test. I think that Obediance is followed by many in order to please the people encouraging the obedience. I do not think the 'teachers' felt they needed to go along with it because the rest of the group was doing it because they were alone and only pressured by the administrators. I thought it was very interesting when some of the 'teachers' would say they couldn't continue and the administrators would tell them that they didn't have a choice yet the few people we saw said and knew they did have a choice to continue or not eventhough it would ruin the experiment. I think this experiment would have had a very different outcome if the 'teachers' were also shocked for not obeying the administrators to shock the 'learners'. Many of the 'teachers' most likely would have continued to inflict pain on others in order to help themselves, because that's just human nature. I also found it interesting when some of the people laughed when hearing the 'learners' screaming from the pain. I don't think they were laughing to be mean, but because they were nervous and unsure of what to do. I often laugh at inappropriate times when I feel uncomfortable or nervous so I can understand why the others did as well. I think it's an unconscious reaction to stressful situations and the internal conflicts. Overall I thought the experiment was very interesting and it has made me think about the obedience Nazi's in Germany were taught and how they could have followed orders in order to please Hitler, other Nazi's and their Country because that's what they were taught for six years, not just an hour like this experiment.
When I originally watched the Milgram experiment I was shocked at the fact that even though some people felt bad for hurting others they continued the punishment just for the sake of listening to the scientist. Connecting it to the Holocaust it could be easy to say that many Germans followed the Nazis because everyone was a part of it and it was easy to follow the group but the same can't be said for this experiment. Everyone had the choice to stop, no one was forced to continue and with a single "it's part of the experiment" they would continue. It was also shocking to see people laugh as they inflicted pain on the other volunteer which is sickening but there is a psychological reason behind it. It is believed that laughing in a situation as such is due to nervousness and discomfort. Still this experiment is shocking because these people aren't forced by any means to do what they're doing they just choose to continue, some even continue with tears in their eyes which is ridiculous.
While I was watching the Milgram Experiment I was so shocked that over 50% of the people that participated in the experiment was able to continue after hearing the guys cries of pain. These people blindly obeyed orders after knowing that they were giving the man shocks and he had a heart problem. Even though they heard the man's screams and as he begged for them to let him, they continued to give him his shocks. Luckily there were people in this experiment that chose to stand up against this and chose to step out. They are the types of human beings that everyone should be like, the people that chose what is right over what they are told.
This was my second time watching The Milgram Experiment, however I was still surprised at how many people willingly as well as knowingly hurt another human being, simply because a person in authority told them to do so. The teachers were even given a sample shock of only 75 volts, which most of them found to be quite unpleasant, yet some of them proceeded to supposedly shock their students with over 400 volts. This experiment reveals in large parts how a thing like the holocaust could have happened, where seemingly normal people become cold hearted murderers. Man of the people involved claimed not guilty seeing as they were simply "following orders". I think it's important to remind people, the youth in particular, to think for themselves, and follow their basic human instinct when they feel that something is off, as opposed to blindly following orders.
I found this documentary to be particularly interesting. Even though I've already seen it before, I'd never seen it or considered it in the context of his history. I wasn't aware of it's link to the Nuremberg trials and was surprised to learn that's why Stanley Milgram conducted the experiment. I also wasn't aware the "teacher" was administered several shocks in order for them to see what the "learner" would be feeling. This surprised me and I was even more disgusted that they would go as far as they did knowing how much pain the subject was in. I think this experiment says a lot about human nature and obedience and how far someone will go in response to authority.
I think that obedience is an act of following someone you feel has a higher authority than you do, because you feel that you are weaker without them. The people doing the shocking in this film knew that if they did not continue with the experiment, they would not receive the money from the people who were running it. I personally do not feel pity for anyone who continued with the experiment, because they were not strong enough to step up and stop doing what they were told when they knew it was morally wrong. Some of the people may have said that they wanted to stop, but they were not strong enough to do so and were persuaded by the people controlling the experiment to continue the shocking. I think this experiment is a perfect and genius way of showing how so many people are just followers and do not have the will and strength to be leaders. Even though their was no one being shocked and it was just a recording, the fact that the people continued to shock him after he said his heart was bothering him just sickens me. If they even had the slightest instinct that they were putting his life at risk, they should have immediately stopped because the consequences for stopping the experiment are far less severe than possibly causing someone to lose their life.
I have seen this video before (in my psychology class last semester) and it is not any less appalling than it was a few months ago. I find the experiment both horrifying as well as intriguing. I can only assume that the results found in this experiment serve as a microcosm for what actually occurred in Nazi Germany, and it really helps me to understand the mindset behind the many Germans who did nothing to stop Hitler's take over of the country. The varied reactions presented by many of the participants in the experiment were shocking to me. I simply cannot imagine laughing while inflicting pain, even if it is nervous laughter, like I believe it to be. In reference to what obedience is, I believe all three factors, fear, desire to please, and pressure to conform, all contribute to the obedience seen in Nazi Germany. Many were scared of the Nazis, therefore allowing them to push them around. Others were so invested in the Nazi vision of a better Germany that they'd do anything they could to help Hitler. Still others were looking to belong to something bigger than themselves and to separate themselves from the Jews and other persecuted parties, so they joined the Nazis. I think obedience must be all three of these. It is a much more complicated emotion than simply one of those descriptions, and all three were displayed in Germany.
to me, obediance is something that can be encouraged by a variety of different events or pressures. While some people are obediant because there is a "reward" for being obediant, there are those that do whatever they are told due to fear. If I was threatened by a negative experience, this would teach me not to do whatever caused the punishment. But if I am given a reward for doing or not doing something, I am more likely to make it a habit. But today there is so much pressure to "fit the norm" and this can cause people to act in irrational ways. I think that some people may laugh at this film because they actually think watching someone suffer is funny as long as it isn't them. But Id like to believe that when people laughted during the film, it was due to nervousness and a feeling of discomfort. I was feeling very uncomfortable just watching the video becuase it shows just how many people woukld continue to do as they are told when they know they will not be held responsible. This makes me feel sick knowing that there are those kinds of people in the world.
I thought that the experiment was very interesting because it showed the seperation very clearly of the strong minded person over the weak minded person. The weak minded person would keep going up on the voltage scale because they were told to. The strong minded person stopped administering the shock after the learner would start complaining of a heart condition. The obedence part of the experiment came from the weaker minded person. They were willing to follow orders even though they knew that it was morally wrong and they were being told to do so. I believe that obedience does not come from pleasure, but from fear for themselves.
Dr. Stanley Milgrams experiment was one that was very interesting and left a lasting impression on me. Human nature will encourage someone to go along with a group if they are told it’s the right thing to do. Even if their morals say differently they will still continue to follow along with the group because they are told to do so. It’s crazy to see people act this way because you know that if they weren't being forced to do this they would instantly stop when they heard the man yelling. The people who stopped the experiment were the ones who were consciously strong and new that this had to end. This was a smart experiment to show the nature of humans.
What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment; a desire to please; or is it a need to go along with the group?
I think that a desire to please others and a desire to go along with the group encourages obedience. People, typically students, soldiers, and recruits of new jobs are driven to want to try to succeed when given instructions from a superior figure such as a captain, a boss, or a parent on how to do so by having gotten advice from them. People of a lower social status may look up to a person of a higher social status and will probably be willing to listen, learn, and respect the words said by that person of a higher social status. I think that once a person of a lower social status learns something from a person they don't want to disappoint such as their boss or parent, they do whatever pleases that person so that they won't make that person feel angry or sad that they didn't follow their directions.
I account for the laughter by people being nervous and not knowing how to react to something so awful to watch. Also, I believe that seeing film footage of something effects how you will react to something then if you see it in front of your own eyes. If you were to witness a video of someone being shocked, you might have less feelings of empathy towards the person because you are not in the camerman's mindset, the perpetrators mindset, or the victim's mindset. You are watching something you can't help changing because you aren't there where the video was filmed, watching it unfold in the moment it actually happens. Some of the volunteers acted like they cared about the safety of the person in the other room being shocked and some acted like it was no big deal. I feel that they acted inappropriately when administrating the shocks. They felt too fearful of wanting to stand up from the seats they sat on and help the person in the other room. I was puzzled as to why they sat there passively. I noticed however that they were feeling bad themselves every time the person who forced them to do the experiment kept pestering them to continue on because they were the ones who signed up to do the experiment so they must be the ones to finish it. I found that his approach to making them continue was a good insight into the psychology of human's emotions and social interactions and how they can be impacted by an authority figure convincing them to do something. They decided to stop the experiments when they realized they hurt the person in the other room. I only identified with the people who made their position of which that they did not want to shock the person anymore clear and confidently. If they became angry and hostile towards the experiment conductor or passive, then they showed lazy and selfish behaviors, and I did not relate to those people. They had a chance to stop shocking the other person and they willingly went with their bad decision anyway. I learned that from watching this film, not everyone is comfortable with doing what is right cause sometimes they feel uncomfortable with being confident because they don't know how to possess and use conform those good qualities, because they have not been taught. From watching this film, I feel it's important everyone is taught to be assertive.
After watching the documentary on the Milgram Experiment, it is now very clear to me that people feel the need to obey other people because the other person has more power. I think that people say that they would never do something, and then when they are put in a position in which another person is telling them to do that thing, they end up doing it anyways. Typically, we think about this peer pressure on a smaller scale than the Milgram Experiment like a person being pressured to try alcohol or drugs. In reality, however, peer pressure can be seen on a much larger scale as the Milgram Experiment and the Nazis demonstrate. I think it is absolutely horrible how over 50% of the "teachers" continued the experiment even though they heard shrieks from the other room as they were electrocuting another human being. Even though the other person had instructions to scream and it wasn’t really hurting him or her, the teacher did not know this. How can you deliberately inflict pain on another human being? Just because a person is telling you to do it doesn’t make you less responsible for what is happening.
I thought it was very wild that the man administering the test still gave a zap to the man in the confined space even though he did not want to. The reason why he did not stop was because he was given orders to keep on giving the test. This shows how humanity works when being under order, people may not want to proceed, but they do because they are given a command to do so. It shows how humanity cares about one another, and wants to help others out. The film alluded to the way the Nazi camps were run, and how the soldiers felt about doing those harmful things to the Jews in the concentration camps. The Nazi’s may have not wanted to do so, but they did so anyway because they were ordered to do so. They had to listen to their commanding officer because it they refused they very well may have been victims too just like the Jews. I learned more about the phycology aspect about humans and the way people act with one another. People should be more independent and do what they believe in for doing. I learned that I need to do a better job of doing what I want to do, and not let people make decisions for me.
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