Dr. Stanley Milgram defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment; a desire to please; or is it a need to go along with the group? As some students watched the film
Obedience, they laughed at the people receiving the shocks. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did some of the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How and when did they decide to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in
Obedience? What did you learn that you didn't know before you watched this film?
33 comments:
I believe that reason that some of the people went along with the experiment is a combination of the reward for completing the experiment and to follow the directions that were given to him. The scientist along kept on reassuring that the shocks were safe and would not harm the man despite his yelling.
I agree with Johnny's comment that some people laugh due to the relieving of tension.
A lot of people like to go along with a group because they do not want to be the ones left out. They have a fear of being alone because you have a lot less power if you are an outsider. This was like the case of the Swing Kids because the Nazis had a lot more power than the Swing Kids did, so the Nazis had the right to beat them up. That also goes along with what they did to the Jewish people. Some people left because I think they thought this experiment was ridiculous and they left for a few times because they were told to. Then a lot of the teachers wanted to stop the experiment because they learner was screaming and saying he had a heart condition. So a lot of them said they would not go on with the experiment. Some of the pressures placed on the teachers were the chance of killing their learner because he had a heart condition and the shocks would pick up his heart race which was not good for him. So some people decided to stop when they heard the guy say stop because his heart was acting up. The last teacher that we saw kept going because he did not have any power over the scientist and he started to act like a follower and just do what the Nazis did and follow instructions. That is one thing that I learned from this film, and that is that some people while do anything to get on to the more powerful side. And that will create a problem in the world as we saw with what happened with people who the Germans thought were “incorrect”.
I think that people obey orders because they fear authority and they do not want to be the odd one out. I think that the man who kept continuing the experiment in the end laughed occasionally to relieve tension to reassure himself that the man was probably okay and not in actual pain. I also thought it was surprising how the man felt that if he didn't have to take responsibility for the learner, then it would be okay to continue. There were various reactions from the volunteers and the trend I noticed was that most of the teachers got a signal to stop when they thought that the learner was beginning to feel pain that could be potentially dangerous; they wanted to stop the experiment because they didn't want to be held responsible for a person's injuries. Pressures that were placed on the teachers during the experiment was the authority figure administering the experiment. Sometimes, when the teacher wanted to stop the experiment, the administrator would tell him that it was absolutely necessary for him to continue the experiment. The administrator also kept saying that the shocks wouldn't really harm the learner. He said even if the learner felt pain, it would be nothing serious. Those pressures were placed on the teacher because the teacher was the one who had to decide when it was appropriate to stop the experiment. Most of the teachers decided to discontinue the experiment when the learner began to shout out, begging, and yelling that he needed to get out of the place and demanded to be let out, because of his heart condition. I would have refused to continue the experiment once I immediately knew that I was placing real pain in the other person. From this film, I learned that it is easy for people to follow orders under higher authority figures because they like the feeling of having power over others, even if it means being destructive.
I think that obediance could be encouraged by all three of the factors listed above but the most encouraging would be a fear of punishment. no one likes to be punished especially if it's a physical punishment. I think the most appropriate laughing response in this case was from relieving tension or showing embarrassment. I don't think people would really think it's funny to see others in serious pain. The laughter probably came from feeling uncomfortable or being shocked that the teachers would actually electricute another person because someone told them too. A lot of the volunteers that were electricuting the learners acted a little nervous or hesitant, but went along with it anyway. They knew what they were doing seemed wrong but felt pressured to continue anyway. Some of the pressures they experienced were that "it is absolutely essential that the experiment goes on," and constantly being egged on by the administrator who made it seem like it was critical to get through the experiment. The money was also a big pressure for the teachers. Most of them decided to stop when the man was yelling that he had a heart condition and wanted to get out. However, one man never stopped at all. They stopped by refusing to go on even when the man said it was essential to continue. I learned that there are several, easy ways to make someone obedient to do anything you want, even harming another person. I also learned that as long as they won't held responsible for something, some people will still follow orders.
Oftentimes, I believe obedience is encouraged by the desire to please along with respect for authority asking you to be obedient. We obey those whom we respect, and we don’t want to disappoint them by going against their requests. As for laughter, I see it as a common reaction to uncomfortable situations. Often when people are unsure how to respond to a difficult scenario, they choose to laugh; laughter can make a situation seem lighter, and I do believe it is a combination of showing embarrassment and relieving tension. As the volunteers administered the shocks, some did laugh, but others seemed to show a deep sense of trapped remorse. What I mean by that is they wanted to stop the hurtful actions, but were not confident enough to do so because of the authority figure telling them to continue with the experiment. You could visibly see the distress and turmoil that they were undergoing, and it seemed to increase as the experiment continued. As the experiment continued, the proctor made it seem imperative that the teacher continue, and that put more strain on the turmoil going on within the teacher. From the looks of the documentary, the teacher decided to stop whenever he came to terms with what he was doing. It wasn’t like there was a definitive point where the typical teacher stopped: each had to make his own decision to stand up against what he believed was wrong. This film taught me how easy it is to get intertwined in a situation that takes a decent amount of courage to stand up against. It also showed me how effective an authority figure can be, and how willingly one will obey the will of that authority figure even if it means the harm of someone else.
I think a big motivator for obedience is the desire to fit in and to please authority figures. Authority figures are often looked up to, they are in positions that are desirable and the people holding these positions may seem to possess certain qualities such as wisdom, accountability, etc. I think all of these factors contribute to obedience. I think laughter in this case serves the purpose to relieve tension. After administering the shocks most teachers became concerned of the learner's physical well being while only some had the guts to stop the experiment. Others became focused on reading the words on the sheet more and more to put the learner's screams out of their minds. Quite a few teachers stopped after the learner complained of heart pain while others continued after they were told that it was absolutely necessary. With every wrong answer pressure was added because the level of pain was increased and the complaint of the learner was louder. I found it interesting that the teacher at the end kept on asking "Are you accountable for the learner's health?" as opposed to asking how deadly the shocks were or insisting on stopping. I learned that people will go a lot farther then they think they will for the sake of obedience.
What do you think encourages obedience? I think that in the case of Nazi Germany, the obedience was encouraged because of a fear of punishment. The work camps were so feared by citizens that they were very careful to reveal what they really thought about the Country.
How do you account for that laughter? I think the laughter is just the viewer's brain realizing that there is a strange situation occurring, and they relieve the stress by laughing at what they are hearing. I don't think there is much harm in this laugh.
How did some of the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? In the experiment, when the volunteers first heard the man screaming, they seemed to take a slight blow and when he pleaded to be let out, many of them asked to quit. When the scientist said that he had total responsibility and that the shocks were in no way harmful, the teacher continued. When the teacher continued, the screams became very violent until there were no screams at all. At this point, there are many pressures on the teacher: the scientist, the fate of the learner, and the ethical decision of shocking someone.
If they did decide to stop, the teachers would simply say that what they were doing was wrong, and they were not going to continue, staying strong until the experiment concluded.
Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? Several of the volunteers in the experiment laughed when they administered the shock, just like the people we watched in Obedience.
I learned that it is very easy for the human mind to be persuaded to do something. If responsibility and pain are lifted off the stress of the brain, the human will do as told.
I believe the desire to belong to a group definitely factors into the encouragement of obedience. Individuals change their behavior under influence of a group mentality regardless of the issue, if they have a strong enough desire to fit in and care enough about their social status in regards to that group.
I believe some people laughed for multiple reasons. Until the "learner" began exhibiting discomfort, and eventually pain, I believe some people thought the shock was funny. As the voltage increased, however, I think any laughter can be attributed to nervousness or discomfort.
Some volunteers seemed apprehensive from the beginning, but others seemed to enjoy the shocking before the "learner" began to feel pain. Dr. Milgram insisted that they continue the experiment, and some obliged. Others refused to continue and deal harm to an innocent man. I could relate to the first "teacher", as he seemed uncomfortable with the situation from the beginning. I don't believe I would be able to do such a thing but I know I would be uncomfortable and uneasy.
I learned that people are very easily manipulated into performing tasks, even if it is against their will.
I agree with Johnny that as long as responsibility and personal accountability are removed from the equation, people will perform basically any task on command.
What i think encourages obedience is the fear of being punished because you never want to anger those who are in a higher position than you like a player would not want to tick off a coach cause they could be punished with suicides which no one wants to do. for the laughter of the students i cannot think of a reason why they would have laughed at the film nothing was very funny at all. Some of the volunteers were very against the shocks that they were giving to the learner, they expressed their disapproval towards their experiment to the man over seeing the experiment. Most decided to stop giving shocks after the "learner" gave a few yelps of pain and others stopped when the "learner" completely stopped responding.Well something that I learned from the film was that there was such an experiment being done.
I agree with Robert's idea that many people wanted to fit in so they did not seem like an outsider, which at the time made you very vulnerable to physical punishment.
I think power encourages obedience. If someone with power tells someone to do something, the person of less power is probably going to obey the more powerful person. I think some students laughed because laughter is a way to relieve tension in an uncomfortable situation. Also, I think part of the laughter was due to the relief that someone else was getting shocked, not them. getting shocked by anything more than 50 volts would be extremely painful, so 450 volts would be terrible. I think most of the volunteers were hesitant to administer the shocks after they heard the student scream, but most of them went on because the scientist told them to. Only one of the teachers reached 450 volts though. Most of the teachers decided to stop after they heard the student scream, or they noticed that he wasn't answering. I don't think I identified with any of the volunteers in the experiment. If I had known that I could have possibly killed someone in the experiment, I would have refused to do it. One thing I learned was that people are easily convinced to do anything for people in power. All of the teachers realized that they were harming the test subject, but continued to do so because the man in the lab coat told them to continue.
I think what encourages obedience is the desire to fit in. When a person goes along with something they just blend into the crowd and don't draw any attention to themselves and end up fitting in, which is exactly what many people wanted to do with the Nazi party. I believe that the laughter from the movie was due to it being a comical situation. Everyone watching the movie knew that the man wasn't actually being zapped, it was all set up so when people heard the man "in pain" or asking to get out it caused laughter. While giving the shocks some of the people laughed after the learner got shocked and others visibly felt bad. While doing the experiment the scientist kept on telling the teachers to continue with it and was being very forceful with it. Many of them decided to stop when the learner complained of heart pains and said they were done with the experiment and wanted to get out. I learned that people will easily do something that they may not think is right if they're told to do it.
I think obedience is encouraged by a feeling of superiority. If a person feels that the person they are following is greater than they are and believe that they must know more than you or know something that you don’t it makes it much easier for someone to be obedient. There is also a fear of punishment in the case of the Nazi’s, but in my opinion that is not the case in the everyday scenario of a person such as myself. Some people laugh during moments that are embarrassing to others or are painful to others as if to say that they are happy that that thing did not happen to them. Such as when someone drops all their books in the hallway or trips down the stairs. Some of the volunteers acted with compassion and were truly worried about the people they were shocking, one man even decided to not continue and walk out of the room. However, others decided to continue along with the experiment and with a little bit of “is he alright” were able to go through the whole set of shocks on command. These people were willing to continue once they were sure that the blame was not going to be on them if something bad happened but rather their boss. What I learned most from this film was that some people are more strong willed than others and are more courageous in their ability to stand up for their views and what they believe in.
I think all three of those factors equally contribute to obedience. Someone who has more power over someone else can easily threaten them with certain punishments for disobedience, in which case the people would respond with obedient behavior because they are fearful of the punishments. Also, people who idolize other people and are greatly influenced by other people will often be obedient toward them in order to please them. I also believe that the bandwagon ideal is another potential factor in the cause for obedience. It can sometimes be very difficult to resist something you do not believe in when many other people go along with it. For this reason, obedience can be encouraged by this need to go along with the group. I think that the laughter was not specific to the people’s pain from receiving the shocks in the film, but more of a reaction to the uncomfortable feeling you are left with after watching the “teachers” willingly inflict pain on the “learners” simply because that is what they are told to do. This is a difficult thing to watch, because many people would not like to believe that human beings are capable of this kind of abuse. I think at one point during the film I began to laugh too, because watching these people so willing to harm others was uncomfortable to witness. The “relieving tension” definition; therefore, would be most appropriate in this situation. All of the volunteers that we saw in the film seemed to react with reasonable uncertainty about what exactly they were doing; however, some of them continued with the experiment while others refused to proceed. They felt pressure from the scientists overseeing the experiment as well as from the well being of the “learner.” By that I mean, they did not want to be responsible for any harm that the shocks would cause the “learners.” I think that if I were in the same situation as these volunteers, I would stop early in the process, like many of them did. I learned more about human behavior relative to obedience and the different ways in which obedience can be achieved.
I agree with Mike's comment about the laughter being a sign of relief. The laughter was a relief mechanism for some of the volunteers because they were probably glad that they weren't the ones receiving the shocks.
I beleive that the main reason that so many people were and are so obedient is the desire to go along with a group. Though many of the "teachers" expressed doubt about what they were doing, the experimenter acted in such a calm and authoritative manner that the teacher often second-guessed their instincts and went along with it. Concerning the laughter from the audience, I feel as though a lot of it was to provide a sense of comfort and false security. The video made me, as well as many others, I'm sure, a bit uncomfortable. And, to feign an image of comfort, laughter is often the first instinct. While watching the film, I found myself reassuring myself that I would have resisted, were I in that situation. But really, I don't know. I would certainly like to think so, but I'm sure everyone else would like to think the same.
I think obedience is something that is genetically born into a lot of people. They're a natural born leaders and natural born followers. So these people just have the mindset to listen to whatever they're told by their leaders. Some people do have strong urges to fit in also, and feel apart of something so that'll also cause someone to stay obedient. I think that some people laughed because they knew it was an experiment, so they felt it was okay, and others laughed because it can help when things are awkward and tense. The volunteers were put in an awkward place. After administering the shocks, they feel guilty because they are the teachers in the experiment, and with no around but the guy who created the experiment you don't know if you should go against the rules, or not. They had to decide on their own whether,or not morality was worth going against obedience. The majority of those that stopped only stopped when they heard the guy say hey stop this I've had enough. I learned that a person can really change if he is told too.
I think that obedience is encouraged because of two very important things; authority and fear of punishment. People think that if you don't go along with what everyone else is doing, you will have no power/authority. Also people are afraid of punishment, especially physical punishment so that makes them do what they're told to do. When the teachers were laughing I felt that it was because they were uncomfortable with the whole situation. Just like many people do when they don't know how to respond to an unusual situation, they laugh. When the colunteers administered the shocks, all of them began to feel terrible each time the voltage go higher. In many cases, the volunteers refused to go any further because they heard the man yelling in the other room. The pressures the volunteers had was that the man conducting the experiment told them that it was "essential to continue the experiment". Another pressure was most likely knowing that they were getting paid to do this, so they continued. What I learned that I didn't know before watching this film is that many people will do something they're told to do if someone else has the responsiblity and not them.
I personally feel like obedience is a natural and biological feeling that is a part of human nature. It is a mix of fear, desire, and the feeling of fitting in, but as humans we biologically feel the need to obey our superiors, whoever they might be. Humans are naturally animals, and like animals we have those that we command and those that we obey so I think that those three things factor in as reasons why it is a part of our human nature. Laughter does relieve tension, laughing makes people feel good, especially after something sad or bad has happened. The most appropriate response would have to be to relieve tension, we laugh because we can't think of an appropriate response to the situation, in this case the shocking. There are the two extremes that were shown in the experiment. There was the first man who as soon as he heard the learner start yelling and saying stop he stopped administering the shocks. Even with poking and prodding from the scientist, he refused. Though the second man went all the was to 450 volts of electricity and was constantly laughing and asking the question of where the responsibility lied in regards to the learner's health. The recording of the learner screaming for help and for them to stop added a lot of stress toward the teacher and added a lot of moral questioning. The second round was when the learner stopped answering all together, the fear of not knowing what happened adds a lot of pressure to the teacher in their decision making. Though the most important one is the scientist that keeps leading them on, telling them to continue. Having that authority figure tell you to do something, you feel inclined to obey, again adding to the moral decisions. I would like to say that I would identify with the subjects that stopped after hearing the man plead for help, but probably not after the first couple yelps. This is the second time I have watched this, but I was shown how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When a superior tells you to do something, you do it. That is what we have been told. The Nazi's weren't other worldly beings, they were humans that were following orders from their superior, which is part of out human nature.
I think that obedience comes from the need to go along with the group. If you go along with the group, then people won’t feel left out or different than everyone else. But by doing so, you lose your own values and beliefs. The volunteers who administered the shocks showed nervousness and fear that they may have actually seriously hurt the student. The man who kept on continuing the experiment laughed to relieve his own tension because he was most likely reassuring himself that he wasn’t hurting the student. The scientists placed a lot of pressure on the volunteers to continue with the experiment even though they could hear the students screaming in pain. One volunteer stopped when he heard the student say he had a heart condition, while the last volunteer continued all the way through. The last man wanted to stop, but he could not stand up to the scientist which showed he had little power. I learned how easy it is for people to comply to society so they can please others.
I agree with David G. that it was very shocking to see the last guy ask if the administrator if he was responsible rather than asking how deadly the shocks were or checking on the man. People in fact will go farther than they think for the sake of obedience. The teacher in that situation kept on pushing on with the experiment, even though he was very uncomfortable, just for the sake of obeying the man's orders.
I believe that obedience is encouraged because of all of those reasons. No one wants to disobey someone with higher status than you and be punished for it. Overall, everyone does it in order to please the person and because everyone else is doing it. I think the reason for the laughter of the students is probably because some of the immature students thought it was funny, but others because they just couldn't believe what was going on. During the experiment, the volunteers at first were just following orders that were given to them by the conductor. As the shock level increased, and they started to see the amount of pain they were inflicting on the learner, they realized that this was wrong. In the other case, the man kept on going because the conductor said he was taking full responsibility. This film relates to a phrase called the "banality of evil", which states that under the right circumstances, someone can become something they're not or perform different actions then they would've done without this special power. One thing I learned from this film is that the German, in this case, neglected to stop the torture they were inflicting on the jews because thats what they were told to do.
I think that a lot of people dont question things enough. In this video the people administering the shocks didnt really seem to even think about it a whole lot as long as it wasn't "on them". That seemed to be the common theme in this documentary that responsibility would be the only thing holding back any of these people from doing what they are told. To some degree they were feeling pressure to do what they are told but I think that it mostly boiled down to the fact that they didn't take a step back and think about what it is that they are doing. I think some people laugh because when viewing this film it is hard to believe that what you are seeing is going on. The whole idea of the experiment is somewhat ludacris which could amount to people finding humor or uncomfortability within it. Lastly it is important to stand up to authorities at times when unfair things are occuring.
I agree with Maria in that conformity can be detrimental to society. People need to think for themselves in this world or they will get trapped in a situation like the Milgram's experiment.
What encourages obedience varies from person to person but the base of it is the desire to please and be a part of something. When we are asked to do something we just typically do it without question, becasue we have that desire in ourselves to please the person who is asking us to do that task. We are raised from the time that we are little to do what we are told, so that more or less stays with us as we get older, we have that imprinted in our heads that we have to do what we are told to please the other person. The reason for laughter was from the people being uncomfortable. I know i personally do sometimes laugh when I become uncomfortable and or dont think what is going on is correct because I feel off. This may be true for others as well, if they feel like they dont think what is occuring is right, they laugh because they dont know what else to do with themselves. As the experiment continued the teacher started getting stressed about it. They were feeling the pain of the student because they were yelling from the shocks. The teachers became antsy, uncomfortable, hurt and worried about the other, yet many continued to shock them. They just expressed their worry and questioned the procter of this test whether they were okay, and if they were going to be responsible for what happend to the studnet. The pleasure that they got from it was that they were in control. They didnt stop because they wanted to please the procter of the experiment. I learned that people are very likely to go against what they believe is right to please others.
I think that obedience is due to both a desire to please, and a need to go along with the majority. Going against a group is hard in any sense, especially when you might get in trouble for doing so. I believe the laughter was cause because of it was a way to rid themselves of lots of tension. As for the teacher who was administering the shock, I believe that they were laughing because at first it seemed kind of funny giving them a small light shock, but as the experiment went on I noticed the laughter stopping and becoming more concern for the gentlemen who was the student. They were pressured throughout the experiment to continue no matter what the gentlemen said or how nervous they got. Some decided to stop as soon as they got uncomfortable but some continued until the end. Before watching this film, I did not realize how easy it would be to convince people to obey you, or hurt other people.
I like what Chris said that some people do what they are told because of a reward. I think that might have a lot to do about following orders.
I think that the teachers were so obedient because they were convinced that they had no responsibility for the results. Even if they did not want to administer shocks at all, because the "doctors" continued pushing them, they continued. Even though I didn't notice people laughing during the film, I understand why. It's an awkward situation to watch, and laughing is the best way to relieve that stress. What i learned from this film is that anybody can learn and be convinced to be "evil."
I think obedience is influenced by many things that determine whether somebody chooses to be obedient or not. The level of respect or authority in the person giving the directions, fear of consequences, and if a person personally supports or believes what they are being told to do are three factors that I think are significant in a person’s decision to obey or not. I agree that laughter is a natural human response to awkward or tense situations, kind of like personal comic relief. I know that I do this a lot and sometimes laugh in inappropriate situations without realizing that it could be perceived as indifference or callousness towards whatever the situation may be. I think in this case, while watching about the Milgram experiment, that laughter in the beginning may have been because sometimes it’s funny to watch people endure small amounts of pain. As the experiments progressed though, the voltage of watts being administered increased to dangerous levels and I think any laughter at this point can be interpreted as a disbelief that some people would ever comply so easily to hurting another human being, whether or not the pain was real or staged. Some of the volunteers did chuckle or laugh as they were administering the shocks but for the most part, people at one point or another hesitated and questioned what they were doing. Some people could not and would not go further with the experiment, while others may have hesitated but still went forward anyways because of the pressure to follow orders. Dr. Milgram kept pressing the fact that the experiment needed to be finished, that the learner was not receiving shocks that could kill him, and that he would take all responsibility for what happened. For some, this was enough to continue to 435 volt shocks, and then back down again to 0. The volunteers that decided to not complete the experiment usually stopped right around when the learner started yelling in pain, and especially when he started talking about his ‘heart condition.’ Once these volunteers knew that were inflicting pain onto somebody they refused to go further. There was one man in particular who I really admired for his firm decision not to proceed with the experiment. Watching the different people made me think about what I would have done in the same situation and I honestly don’t know. This video for me personally has had the most effect on me because typically in the past I’ve been known to be pretty obedient but I wonder if my moral conscience would stop me from following orders like in the Milgram experiment. I learned that there are a lot of people, around 50%, that completed the experiment and this shocked me. I thought it would be a lot less, maybe around 1-2% and it was like a wake up call. No matter what you’re doing, what age you are, or your physical location, you have to be able to think for yourself and think about what the significance of your actions.
I agree with how Mike L. pointed out the power really influences obedience, i think that's incredibly significant.
i was absent
Post a Comment