Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? Post your reflective comment by the end of the week.
44 comments:
I think fear of punishment definitely encourages obedience. People would do whatever they wanted if they didn't think they'd get in trouble for it. This was my third time watching the Milgram Experiment. It never gets old. I was shocked that some of the subjects were laughing during the experiment. I do think that there are some people that genuinely do have nervous laughter and that can be tough for them to control at times so it isn't necessarily their fault. When they weren't laughing, the subjects appeared stressed and concerned about the "learners". It was tough for some of them to stop administering the shocks because the people conducting the experiment were very convincing in the sense that there would be no liability to them if the "learners" were harmed. I never noticed that last man actually began to cry. I thought that was interesting.
I think that people are obedient because of their desire to please an authority figure. When the people were laughing in the film, I definitely don't think it was because they thought what they were doing was funny. I think it is because they were nervous and scarred, and some people just laugh in those situations. When the volunteers administered the shocks, it was clear that they were doing it only because they were told that they had to. While some people were brave enough to go against the authority figure, some of the volunteers continued to administer the shock until the end of the experiment even though they thought they were hurting the other volunteer severely. The reasons why they continued with the test was because the man in charge pressured them into it by saying things like it essential to go on with the experiment, the other volunteers weren't going to be permanently damaged, and the that he said they were not responsible for their actions.
In the Milgrim Experiment, obedience was encouraged by the confidence of the authority figure. People are inclined to listen to so called "experts" such as the man in the white lab coat in the film. I believe that the laughter was caused by nervousness. Many people are unsure how to react when faced with a conflict as shown in the experiment. The laughter serves to relieve the awkward nervous tension that is created when the learner begins to rebel. Some of the teachers were reluctant to inflict pain upon the learner when he began to complain, others had no problem reaching 450 volts. The test showcases how Hitler was able to execute his plans in Germany. He earned the trust and respect of the population, enabling him to act as the authority figure. People are reluctant to challenge the authority. I had a similar experience to Natalie when viewing the experiment. I had seen the film once before, but was still shocked at the disturbing ability to inflict harm. I sympathize with the teachers, however, in that the psychological pain they felt when the true experiment was revealed.
I think that obedience is encouraged by the fear of punishment, a desire to please, or to go along with the group in most cases; however, I think that it is human nature to be obedient to people who are in the role of an authority figure. The “teachers” felt like it was their obligation to continue with the experiment because the scientists told them to. I also think that the volunteers felt like they would be disappointing important people if they did not follow their instructions. I think the main reason the volunteers continued with the experiment was because they felt like they didn’t have any responsibilities. The scientists told them that they were responsible for any problems, so they felt as if they were disconnected by what was happening to the “student” because it wasn’t their idea. I agree with Andy that in this case the men were laughing to relieve nervousness and tension. I think that most of the people would never have thought of doing this experiment on their own. When they were administered to give the shocks they were at first reluctant, but eventually some of the men gave in and obeyed the scientist’s orders. They had to be reassured many times that it was okay to continue. The people who did stop giving shocks felt uncomfortable hurting the other man. They all told the scientist that they had a choice and it was to stop their part in the experiment.
After watching the milgram experiment, it is clear to see that when placed in a position when someone who is dressed professionally and seems to have authority gives an order, people often listen. This experiment proves that a lot of humans are obedient and follow orders when given. This is similar to the nazi officer trials when they said they were just "obeying orders" because when Hitler or other generals in germany gave an order, the people listened and followed as instructed.
I too agree with natalie, in her point made about nervous laughter. That does happen to some people and it is understandable. I have seen this film once before and I still can't believe that some people would continue giving the shock after they weren't even getting a response from the learner. I think if I was in this situation I would probably shock the learner until they said they wanted to get out, especially since you are inflicting pain on an innocent human. The whole experiment bothers me since people will continue doing what someone who looks professional and wears a labcoat tells them to do because this is why Hitler was so sucessful. The germans knew what was happening but they continued to do it.
I agree with Stephanie in her statement that people naturally want to obey an authority figure. They feel that is the way things should be done and the right thing to do.
sorry i wasn't around to watch the movie!!
I think that a belief in authority encourages obedience especially in the Milgrim Experiment. For some people, it was hard to object to the experiment or stop because of the authoritative figure. He was in a lab coat and continued to make orders and since he was in control of the whole situation, there was obedience by the test subjects. I think that the laughter was actually nervous laughter and they were tense about the situation and what they were doing to the “learner”. The volunteers most often turned around and wanted to check with the authoritative figure to see if he/she should continue giving the shocks. Some of them argued back and said they wouldn’t continue until they knew the guy was alright.
I agree with Jess that this is similar to the Nazi trials because of the idea of obedience and that the Nazi officers were just obeying the orders that they were given. It shows that some people listen to authority even if they are inflicting pain on another person.
I believe that all of those reasons stated are true. When someone has fear, and also belief in the person that is giving them the orders, they will obey. The “teachers” were enjoying given the punishment, and some were even laughing, until they became concerned about the “learner” who said he was in pain and didn’t want to do it anymore. People enjoy having some sort of power, but when a big responsibility falls upon them, like somebody’s health, they tend to not want to be responsible for it. When the “teachers” said that they didn’t want to continue, the experiment supervisor said that he would be responsible for everything that happens, and he also said that if they didn’t continue the experiment would be ruined. Half of the people continued with the experiment, and this shows how if not held responsible, and given orders from somebody that seems to be trustworthy, most people would continue to do things even if its wrong.
I think that the fear of punishment encourages obediance nad also a belief in authority. I think that students laughed because it was funny to them hearing the people who were gettting shocked yell and watching the teachers laugh as well.I think that the laughter of the teachers was due to the relieving of tension. The teacher is in the room with a powerful scientist in their eyes he's causing pain for the student, a very tense situation. When administering the shocks the teachers either giggles to themselves or they hesitated to go on and kept looking back or talking to the scientist for reassurance, but you also come across some teachers who refused to go on when the student first yelled. The pressure of completing the experiment was on them and the pressure of the scientist who kept repeating that it was vital that they complete the experiment.
I agree wiht Natalie that most of the laughter was nervous laughter but when they werent laughing they showed stress and were concerned for the safety of the student.I also didnt notice that one of the teachers started crying at the end, I thought he was laughing.
I agree with Gabby, and I think when someone is under the orders of an authoritative figure, they tend to obey, even if the orders are hard to agree with. Not all people are like that, half of them denied continuing on, but this shows how so many people would obey leaders even if they aren’t right.
I think that obedience is encouraged by fear of punishment mixed with people’s natural desire to obey authority. Fear of punishment encourages obedience because if there weren’t any repercussions to peoples actions, people would be doing whatever they wanted. I don’t think peoples laughing reaction was triggered by something funny rather by the students’ uncomfort from watching the movie. Some people deal with their nervousness by laughing at things that aren’t funny or just having an uncontrollable laughter. I think this was the case with the students watching and the test givers in the film because they were nervous and scared of what might happen. When they weren’t laughing, they seemed concerned about the learners and what was going on in the room next to them. While some of them were strong enough to tell the administer that they were not going to continue giving the test, one in particular was too convinced by the administer to keep going so he obliged. At first he laughed nervously when administering the test and at the final shocks he began to cry.
Kasey brought up a good point about the students laughter. She stated that some students began to laugh because of the way the person yelled and what he said when he was in pain.
I am going to argee with Gabby in say that obedience is goal. As children we are molded to be able to take "orders" from our parents, teachers, our boss at work, and those of higher standing than ourselves. We develop a subconscious reaction to listen to someone who seems to be in charge. No one follows someone weak, a leader presents themselves, either in appearance or aditory. The most powerful people in History have been those that look like they're in charge, or those that capture a person through speeches. As for nervous laughter, I think the idea that in order to process the action/reaction of the situation, some people laugh to almost shrug of the idea of pain or sorrow. And as for those that continued, some are able to convince themselves it is right, others made sure that they would not get in trouble if they were to continue.
This experiment is a clear exaample of people listening to authority. When a person has the power to tell someone else what to do there can be a very large problem. When a person feels the reponsibility is not theirs they emidiatly dont feel grief for the person in the lower power position. This movie made me very awair of the position of power and how it can be minipulated.
I agree with andy. These people are trying to please the authoritive figure. This can be used well in porportiin but if the power is taken advantage of the conciquences are dire.
I think the factors that encourage obedience are fear of punishment and authority as well as the desire to fit in and please others. I have now watched the Milgram Experiment three times. I was definitely taken by surprise when some of the volunteers started laughing and I am not sure why but my best guess was that it was either a nervous reaction or they were trying to shake it off. But I was especially surprised by the man that was crying, I had never noticed that; I always thought he was laughing. Many showed concern for the learners; they wanted to go and check on the guy before they went on because he was expressing pain. The one man had to know that he would not be liable in order to continue.
I agree with Kasey, I think that some of the laughter of the teachers was to relieve the tension and to break the stress. The situation was extrememly tense it was the only way they knew how to handle it.
This experiment is an example of people obeying authority. When a person has the power to tell someone else what to do there can be a very large problem. When a person feels the reponsibility is not theirs they dont feel grief for the person in the lower power position. Also, when an authority figure tells someone what to do, chances are they will obey just because they have authority.
I agree with Fernando, that people enjoy having power, but when they feel a sense of reaponsibility for hurting another person, their conscience will kick in.
I agree with Fernando, that people enjoy having power, but when they feel a sense of reaponsibility for hurting another person, their conscience will kick in.
I think that the people went along with the experiment because of their belief in authority. They never wouldve believed that a scientist would tell them to do something that would harm another, or that a scientitst could be wrong because scientists are looked up to by society
I agree with Andy's comment that people are obedient because of their desire to please an authority figure. Even when the teacher believes he is hurting the learner when he is shocking him or her, the teacher does not want to appear weak or uneducated to the scientist conducting the experiment
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I'm not a psychologist, and their are a lot of psychological phenomenon that I think are overhyped, but I think people have a natural faith in authority that causes them to follow orders. This is especially true in modern America, where people are taught their is a structure to society from a young age. It takes a lot to go against authority you believe in. I thought the laughter was a way of expressing relief they were not in the other position, but at the same time a way of showing nervousness. it was shocking that even as some people grew more and more tense, they continued against their conscience.
I think how obedience is encouraged depends on someone's personality. According to the person, obedience could be encouraged through fear of punishment, a desire to please, or to follow a larger body of people. If someone likes to be included in groups and not standing out then their source of encouragement would come from a group of people. If someone has great fear of being punished either physically or emotionally then their encouragement will come in the form of threats. I know that when I was watching the film, I had to hold back something. I wasn't sure if it was an urge to cry or to laugh under an uncomfortable situation. Personally I would never be able to hurt a human being but just watching people being hurt and others laughing at that made me feel so uncomfortable. I don't think many people would laugh becaue they thought someone being hurt was funny. I think the majority of the people were inbetween crying and hysterical laughter like the one man who continued with the experiment when he had not wished to. I think these people laughed because they had to realieve the tension they were feeling. Most of the volunteers went through the procedure up until the recorded voice would start to yell and talk about him having a heart condition. At this point, the volunteers would become concerned and ask the administrator if the testee was alright or if he should be checked on. Some refused to go on saying it was their right not to continue the experiment, others followed the words of the administrator even after clearly feeling uneasy and uncomfortable with continuing. The administrator would tell the tester to continue with the shocks and finish the experiment. The people who knew they were doing something wrong stated they would not proceed and therefore didnt, others slighly protested but continued to shock the test subject. I thought it was interesting how people even started the experiment after hearing that the test subjects were going to recieve shocks. Also when they were describing the gel as something to protect the subject from getting burns even I knew that gel conducts electricity and would cause a greater shock. From the start I would never have carried out the experiment.
Going along with what Andrew said, I can see how authority plays a large role in many peoples deciscions; however, every person is their own individual with their own opinions and should be able to decide for themselves what they want to do and not what others want them to.
I think belief in authority causes people to obey. Because they see that someone holds a high position they assume that the person know what they're talking about, and even if they don't they know how to deal with what's going on. Therefore, people will just go along with it. Knowing that they have less authority in a situation can cause people to feel cornered and compelled to act in a certain way. I think that the reason people would laugh during the experiment is from nervous laughter. I don't think anyone agreed with what was going on, but they knew that it would keep happening and laughing was a coping mechanism. I identified with the volunteer who successfully stopped the experiment. I think if I were in the experiment I wouldn't be able to continue. I would feel pressured to keep going, so I'd probably end up just crying like one of the men did.
To comment on what Brenton said, I don't think anybody didn't have a problem with reaching 450 volts, I think that the ones who reached that did it out of fear of authority. As we saw, one of the men who reached 450 was crying.
Unfortunatly I was absent on the day that we watched "The Milgram Experiment".
The milgram experiment was such an interesting film. It was my first time watching it and will definitely be going back to revisit it. I was so shocked at the array of different reactions that the "teachers" had. I admired the ones that stopped after the "student" began protesting the shocks. They didn't care about the money or anything, they simply wanted to stop the pain being inflicted on the other people. I was puzzled by some of the others that would laugh and continue. in my mind, it showed how some people are leaders and followers. Some people stand up for what is right and do not care about what they are supposed to do. Meanwhile, others are followers and follow instructions without paying attentions to what they are truly doing.
I agree with Kasey's post. Many people do things they may not necessarily want to do but they do it anyways because they are scared of the consequences. That was the case in the Milgram experiment because the administrator person kept telling the "teacher" to keep going regardless of what the student was saying and that he had no other choice but to do as he said.
I beleive the milgram experiment is a good way of showing how pressure and influence from others of a higher authority can make people do things they would normally know are immoral.
I beleive with Natalie that fear of punishment encourages obedience.
I think that fear of punishment and the desire to please definitley encourages obedience. People are certainly aware of the consequences, as shown in this film. I have seen this film before, but as I watched it again I was still so surprised that people could take it to such extremes and ignore the student's plea to get out of that room. I definitley think the laughter of some of the teachers was definitley a nervous laugh because they didn't know how else to react.
I agree with Jess in the sense that the obediance seen in the Milgram experiment is like the obedience shown by the Nazis following Hitler and the officers. They simply claimed to be "following orders" and that they were forced to do it by a higher figure so it is not their responsibility or liability.
William Lariviere: I thought that this video was very interesting. Most of the people shown stopped at exactly 150 volts. but 1 guy managed to take a deep breathe and shock the "learner" going up to 450 volts and back. This video proved a poit that you truly have to have no conscience to do what the nazis were able to do during the holocaust.
i was absent
I agree with Rachel, scientists or any other professional loking person is looked up to in society and we tend to listen to people with greater authority than ourselves and respect them.
Although this was my second time watching the experiment, I am never able to believe what I am seeing. The last man on the video is completely submissive to the individual in an authority position, which is the experimenter. This experiment reveals that although some people are able to resist the power and intimidation people in authority impose upon them, many people just do not have the ability to stand up for what is right. It is unfortunate, but true.
I thought "the milligram experiment" was very interesting. I was surprised to see how many people continued to administer high voltage shocks, regardless of whether they wanted to or not. It shows that even though morals are present in individuals, they can be overridden by people telling them what to do. This may give a glimpse as to what happened in nazi germany when higher military officers told their subjects to execute all jews they encountered by the masses. It is a sad thing that people can be used to do such terrible things to others, but it was been proven that many have this capability to inflict pain.
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