Friday, May 1, 2009
The Milgram Experiment - Period 1
Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? Post your reflective comment by the end of the weekend and be sure to make a comment to another student’s post.
13 comments:
I think obedience is linked to fear in one way or another. If there were no consequences for not following orders, nobody would ever follow them, but the fact that you can be punished for disobeying keeps you from doing it.
I think people laughed because they were uncomfortable with the situation. When people don't quite know how to react to something that doesn't appear immediately disturbing, they often laugh. Since we couldn't actually see the man being hurt and could only hear him yell, we didn't know if he was actually being hurt, but the idea of it was still uncomfortable.
I was appalled by how long the volunteers went without saying anything. Personally, I would feel uncomfortable administering any sort of pain to another human being.
Obedience usually happens when there is confusion or chaos. If someone, especially someone in a role of authority, tells another to do something, they would usually obey because they are unsure, and assume that since the other person seems so certain, they must be right.
Laughter is a part of human nature. It doesn't make much sense why people laugh about anything, but we do it nonetheless. It seems to make even less sense when people laugh when they are not happy and uncomfortable. It's something in our intuition. It helps us release tension. It helps us relax. It also helps us to associate with others and helps others relax and calm down.
Being in a situation like this is tough. I don't know if I would be able to stand up to the person in a place of authority. I think that most people would continue with the experiment if pressured enough. I think that even the people who stopped would keep on going if the experimenter pressured them even more or kept them there (for hours or days even) until they continued.
Everyone showed discomfort when they were shocking the person, even the ones who continued. They weren't heartless. They just didn't know what to do, so they continued doing what they were told.
In my opinion, obedience is, as Katie mentioned earlier, linked to fear. A desire to please can be looked as a fear of the consequences of not pleasing, or fear of going against the group. Some could have a fear of the consequences of disobeying authority. I was shocked that many of the people participating in the experiment continued increasing the voltage all the way to the maximum.
I think People laughed the way they do when they're not really sure how to respond to a situation. For example, when I was really young, I was standing next to my mother while she was being told one of her close friends had just died. Needless to say, I started laughing.
Being in the test situation, I would have simply quit. However, if I try to relate this to a situation like the one that the German Soldiers in WWII were in, I am not entirely sure how I would have responded. We all would like to think that we would refuse to hurt people, but you can never really say until you are in that situation yourself.
I agree with Sam that one reason the experimentees continued was because an authority figure told them so. It is easy to follow along with what you are told, even if you are unsure or disagree with the commands. They figured that since they had volunteered, they had to go along with the experiment. Similarly, people who are ordered to do things that go against their conscience for their work feel, and tell themselves afterward, that they had no choice. Though their choice was the easier path, this does not mean that it was the only or better path. Half of the volunteers (eventually) went with their better judgment and stopped the experiment. Even though they thought they would be dropped out of the experiment and would not receive their check, they decided that enough was enough and they wouldn't go any further.
On another note, I was surprised that some people actually thought they were sending 400V shocks to someone else, and did it. I know, as Mr. Gallagher said, that this is almost four times what comes from electrical outlets, which can kill people. I guess they may not have known this, but it still should have seemed excessive to them.
I agree with Salik, and hope that I would make the right decision if I were put in a similar situation, but can't know until I am there.
This experiment is one of those that makes you stop for a minute and think about your actions. What would you do in this situation? Most people would say they wouldn't go through with it, but it is amazing to see how many people did go through with it. Some people stopped and had the will power to say no. This makes me think about those who followed through the experiment through to the end. Does the fact that they did that make them horrible people? Does it mean deep down they wanted to hurt him? Does it mean they have the willpower to kill or hurt someone else if not in the experiment?
This is a great experiment, and like Katie said, obedience is linked to fear. Which shows us a lot about human character when in a scary situation.
I was shocked to see that this experiment was taking place. Some people went along with taking all the orders from the professor. I guess people just think that they must take orders and follow them if they had signed up for it. Even if they don't like what they are doing, they must continue the job in order to follow everybody else.
Some people laughed while doing the experiment and i agree with Sam that its a part of human nature to laugh. Those people who probably do so in order to release tension and help to relax.
I had already seen this video prior to class, but it still struck me just as hard that people can be forced into shocking another person (or thinking they are) and some not be affected by it. They did what they were told because it was a direct order.
I think the major reason why anyone would do it is because they are told that it is not their responsible.
It is this reason that the brain makes it logical. So they can say, I was just following orders.
I definitely think that most everyone was obedient to this experiment because of fear to stand above authority. These individuals fell into the victim role, they let something they knew was wrong continue because someone said SO. Obedience goes along with the need to please. These men were able to stop at any time, they had free will, but rather than taking the learners full consideration in and actually ending the experiment the kept going because they were told to. I think that anyone in this situation would follow the same lines as the rest because everyone is told what to do and how to do when growing up, it just takes a lot of will power to go against someone or something that seems right to your superiors.
People were laughing during the experiment as a natural instinct. It was not meant to be malicious and the pain of another is not funny but I think that it is used as a defense mechanism to how nervous they truly were. They were put in a awkward situation to either follow the rules or end the experiment. The teacher was in complete control throughout and it is really sad to see how easily someone can deny their true feelings towards something and go along with another's.
I would have to agree with everyone, I think that its just human nature to be obedient and its really hard to break away from it.
I think that what determines what a person does has more than just one cause or element in it. I think that by watching this experiment we see that it didnt matter who the person was, they all felt it was their duty to obey. This experiment shows just how easy it is to be controlled to do something rediculous. People need to read into this and see or realize that it could have been them, because a lot of people look at this experiment and things in history that people have done, and we judge. We cannot understand why, and think less of that person. I think people laughed because it all seemed rediculous to them. It seemed as strange to them as it did the viewer, and a lot of the people who watched this experiment did laugh at first. I saw that as something i could relate to that person administrating the shocks. It made it seem real and possible to follow orders even from where I was. I thought it was interesting that the subjects got paid quite a bit to be there, but if they left they could still keep the money. It seems strange that a person would go through all that when they could just walk away stress free with a full wallet. There must have been something more holdng them there.
i agree with katie, obedience is definately linked to fear, because we are afraid of the consequences. but even then, there is a limit to the fear, because when enough people are not afraid, you can no longer keep them in line, for example; the one shocker person who just refused to continue with or with out the compensation because he just felt it was wrong. when you get to that type of a situation with multiple people, it is definatley hard to get them to continue with the expiriment, and there is simply nothing you can do. but i think when it comes to that, people are still obedient, but to themselves because they are afraid of the consequences of a higher authority, such as god or possibly their own selves. so either way, obedience is and will always be linked to fear, just not necessarily the way in which most people portray it.
I find it strange to think about if I would or wouldn't do what the people in the film did. I personally don't think I could shock someone like that, but I also feel like if both parties agreed on the testing it would feel necessary to follow through. To me the way the people get sucked in to obeying something that they feel it is right to quit seems sort of like someone getting "in over their head" gambling. The person knows ahead of time that they have to be willing to sacrifice some money, but end up staying in even when they don't want to and losing it all. The people gambling are controlled by the prospect of winning. In the film it seemed like the fact that scientific research seems like a noble cause, someone would be willing to do something they're against.
I think the laughter was happening simply because that's what people do when they're put into uncomfortable situations.
I agree with Salik when it comes down to me doing the testing, i'd probably quit like a good amount of the people did. In Nazi Germany however there was a lot more fear involved, and a lot more people siding with the Nazis, which would have made it much harder to stop and quit.
I definitely agree with Tony. When people are laid off from being responsible from an event like this, then they do it on order. I did find it shocking that people will inflict pain on other people because they were told to. I don't know how our brain works, but it's kinda hard to believe. If I think outside the box, can it be because of money? The motivation of getting that money to do what they were told could have played a part in the actions. If there were no deals, and nothing was involved, then I doubt the person would inflict pain on the other person. There would be no motive for them.
i think obediance is influenced by many things, but it also depends on who you are and how you were raised. Some people associate obediance with having a respect for higher authority, such as parents or teachers. They were taught to obey someone in a superior position. some people associate obediance with punishment. depending on what the consequences are for their action, they will take the risk. when administering shocks, some of the test subjects only obeyed the orders to a certain point; when the experiment conflicted thier morals. others questioned the experiment but continued when instructed to.
Simply put, the reason for laughter is when somebody is nervous. Nervous about how to answer or react to the situation.
i thought it was interesting how when one of the men being tested asked "who was responsible for the student in the other room if he gets hurt". as sooon as the responsibility was on someone else, he felt it was okay for him to endanger the mans life.
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