Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience?
40 comments:
I thought this movie was crazy i can't believe some people would shock strangers like that with out stopping and think it's funny. I thought that it was a necessary experiment though. It's interesting to see how people react to that type of pressure.
I Agree with Logan about how this movie was crazy because I wouldn't expect a stranger to keep shocking another guy after he hears the other scream. I found it pretty interesting how the last guy kept going still after 400 volts of electricity and the pressure made him still go. I would've just stopped right away.
I thought this movie was one of the most interesting we have seen thus far. I can relate to some of the people who stopped after the learner said stop the first time, but in my opinion the people who kept going (especially the last guy) have no excuse. Just because you wont get blamed for it doesnt mean that you aren't administering the pain. The last guy kept going because he didnt have to take responsibility.. he is still causing the suffering.
I agree with Logan that it is very interesting to see how people react under pressure. i also cant believe how some of the "teachers" were laughing after administering the shock. I dont really understand why we laughed as a class looking back on it.. it isnt funny, but we all laughed
After watching the Milgram Experiment movie today, I was able to see that people could easily be forced to inflict harm on to other human beings just because they are told to do so. I am still not sure why the “teachers” were able to inflict harm on the “listeners” even though the teachers thought the listeners were in incredible amounts of pain. Throughout the movie, Mr. Gallagher kept saying “these are Americans, not Nazis” and I think this goes to show that some people do feel they need to do what other people say. The saddest part for me, was watching the man cry each time he thought he was giving someone a shock. He was crying and yet he continued to give shocks until he was told he could stop. I don’t understand this. How could he feel so terrible about what he is doing and start crying, yet continue to inflict pain? On the other hand, there were “teachers” who refused to continue with the experiment after giving only a couple shocks. I think this showed that some people are able to stand up for themselves or other people when they do not agree with what is going on, but there are also people who will always do what they are told.
I think obedience comes from all of the things mentioned, usually if a child does somthing wrong and they are slapped for it they have learned not to do whatever caused them to be inflicted with pain. A desire to please is often shown with "teachers pets" a student with obide by what the teacher tell them to do in order to please the teacher. the more timid crowd in our society i think believes that there are in fact authoritys and therefor may fall victim to whom ever tells them what to do. so to answer the question what encourages obedience i think it depends on the type of person and for everyone it is different.
laughter i believe is the result of the shock (unintentional) of realizing that these are actual people performing the task that they were told to do even though they know it is morally wrong, and our astonishment at how far many of these men went with the voltage that they were supposidly inflicting on the "learner".
the volunteres were pressured throughout the entirity of the experiment to stand up for what they believed was morally right, everytime they were told that the experiment must go on they had that decision and everytime the "learner" yelped in pain they had that decesion and choice if i might add to simply stop, to stand up say no and walk away.
I have to say that when I was watching the Milgram Experiment I was completely disgusted that people in our class who laughed at the pain that the person was feeling through the electric shock. I know that it is a reaction, but to me nothing about electrical shocks hitting someone’s body is funny. I actually felt my stomach get physically sick with knots every time the “teacher” hit the shock button. I believe that the people went along with it, because they felt that they had to because someone in authority told them that. I believe the only reason some people stopped was because of the guy complaining about being disabled, and that they finally understood the extreme pain he was in. Thus making them feel what they were doing was wrong.All of the volunteers after they realized they were hurting people were very hesitant to give the shock and would try to make them as quick and painless as possible, but they were not like that at the beginning. When they felt the shock was harmless, to me they were still wrong to have shocked the person in the first place.
I agree with Matt that the last guy in the experiment should not have kept going even though if "something happened he would not be reliable for it." I understand he felt pressure to do this, and I do not believe this man to be a bad person, but I am still completely astounded by how he could keep inflicting that large amount of pain to someone else.
After watching the Milgram Experiment in class I believe obedience is provoked by all the things you mentioned possible. While the reasons for obedience vary by day to day situations. In the experiment, people are offered money, could that drive there motive to inflict pain regardless if it is morally right? Some one is telling them that they need to so do they feel an obligation. Some people are just "doer's" and follow what they are told. Because of these reasons for obedience I feel as if the laughter was because of nerves and anxiety. No person didn't say they were going to stop as soon as they heard something through the wall. The "teachers" were told they didn't have a choice, stopping the test wasn't an option. One guy amounted to tears because he didn't want to but was forced. I think that this experiment shows how easily the Nazi's in Germany were able to come to power because like in "swing boys", the corrupt character (christian bale) says there's no other way. We have to be like this.
I agree with Logan I think the most interesting aspect of this movie was how people reacted under that type of pressure. I wonder if it would have been different if they were able to see some one actually getting pain of that degree inflicted on them. Some times its harder for people to go on when they can see it where they used the wall as a barrier not only between the person but for there guilt.
I think people are obedient because they fear some form of punishment from others. The people that carried out the Milgram experiment punished the person that was getting it wrong, but they did not stop because they were ordered to keep asking them questions. Some of the questioners laughed at their pain. This is because they are trying to relieve their tension. They are trying not to feel responsible for hurting the person giving the wrong answer.
I agree Matt that the last person kept going because he didn't have to take responsibility. Once he found out that he would not be blamed, he just kept following orders until he got to 450 volts. It just shows that humans will keep following orders as long it is not their responsibility to make sure the person is not suffering because of them directly.
This was a very interesting social experiment to learn about. For me, though, I thought that what encouraged the obedience of the subjects was their ability to convince themselves that they weren't responsible for their own actions; the scientists leading the experiment were.
In terms of the students laughing when the 'subject' was shocked, I don't think that was to relieve tension, but I honestly doubt that it was out of some sadistic pleasure, either. It seemed to me at first that they laughed only at the abruptness of the outburst itself.
As the experiment continued, the pressures weren't that significantly intensified; It only seemed that the scientists would reiterate the fact that the 'teachers' needed to follow through with the entire experiment. No threats were made, nor were consequences presented, so the opportunity for the subjects to choose to stop was always there.
When the subjects came to the decision to sever their participation in the experiment, I'm sure that what was going through their heads was the well-being of the individual on the other side of the wall separating them. Also, I'm sure they didn't want to have to bear the guilt of manslaughter, having possibly lethally electrocuted a man.
I didn't really identify with any of the subjects in the experiment, but that's probably because of the fact that I have no realistic idea of how I'd act if put in such a situation as this.
This is actually my second time seeing this movie. The first time was in Psych with Mr. Cullen. The thing that got to me both times was how a few of the people they showed just kept the shocks coming as soon as they were told that they would not be held responsible. This is a major problem in the world today. A lot of people do not want to be held accountable for their actions and this always leads to awful things. Obviously the Holocaust comes to mind. Also it is crazy to see how some people would laugh when administering the shocks despite not being of the sadistic type. It also shows how many people react to pressure from an authority figure.
I also agree with matt that the film was the most interesting thus far, in terms of how mr gallagher said that none of the people were nazis, in fact, they were Americans from the same country we live in. I think that the amount of shocks given was not determined by what the learners reactions were, but internally what the people were thinking about their responsibility in the experiment. as we saw in the film, only 50% of the subjects intervened halfway, saying that they felt something inside themselves that felt the need to step in for another's well being. the man who went all they way through didnt see any consequence in his mind about what was happening across from him, but because he was told to, he proceeded. its the videos like these that shape us into what type of people we will become and we all should learn from this not to allow something that you couldve helped stop continue
I thought the movie was really interesting. I think it helps connect back to the way the nazis followed orders so blindly; they hurt and killed countless numbers of people and saw nothing of it. The people in the video, even though some stopped earlier than others, were willing to shock/inflict pain upon another human being because they were told to. Although the later scenario is much less severe, the idea behind is is very similar. I agree with Logan about this experiment being neccessary; it really made me think about what choices i make, and I'm sure it will have a similar effect on anyone who watches it in the future.
I agree with Logan that this experiment (despite how unethical it may have been) was necessary. It allows for us to how people react to pressure.
This documentary showed how quickly people can change their actions once resposibility has been lifted from them. Once they were told that they would not be in trouble for delivering shocks that should have been more than enough to kill someone, they continued the experiment with very little inhibitions. It was quite shocking to see how normal people would be able to keep shocking people after obvious requests to stop, to shrieks of pain, to thinking that they killed the man behind the wall.
I, like Jeff, also watched this movie in Psych with Mr. Cullen. I also found the fact that once people had responsibilty taken from them they were wholly more willing to continue, quite disturbing. Mr Cullen also made a point when he showed us the film that i thought was worthy of note. Even though these people were relieved when the responsibilty was taken from them, using the defense "I was told to do it" has never once worked in court. Most notably during the Nuremburg trials, where the Nazis were put on trial for war crimes.
I think that obedience is encouraged by not only a belief in authority but a fundamental trust in it as well. From an early age, people are taught that positions of authority entail a sense of what is right and that the people holing these positions are usually if not always right. In this case the position of authority was not so much a position as much as it was the title of doctor. I really can't remember a time when I have questioned the prescriptions of my doctor when I was sick and I have a feeling anybody would be hard pressed to recall such a time. Even though Milgram was not a medical doctor in the common sense, he still held a Ph.D..
I think that just as crying can be a result of positive or negative emotions, laughing can as well. There was a tension in the room because we knew what the "teachers" obedience entailed which is something that many people would not be comfortable discussing. I think the laughter was merely a coping mechanism and was not triggered by something being funny at all.
In some cases, the decision to stop administering the shocks was delayed by Milgrams as he kept saying it was necessary. However the decision ultimately lied in the hands of the "teacher" and was made when they felt it wrong to continue.
After watching "Milgram Experiment" today, i was shocked as to the fact that people have the courage to keep harming another human. Many people did not want to continue the experiment because they were worried that the person will get hurt. The last guy knew he was causing the harm, but continued the experiment because he would not get blamed if anything bad happened. What i saw was disturbing and it was a good example of torture in my opinion.
I agree with Justin that this was a very interesting experiment. I was shocked as well to the fact that students were laughing when the people received the shock and its literally a form of torture. I also agree that the reason some people continued the experiment was because they would not get blamed for what they did, even though they are the ones that caused the harm and its not right.
I agree with logan and thought that it was kind of sick of how that man could keep going on. If i was in his situation i honestly probably would have continued the experiment because i volunteered to do so and because i would want to contribute to the gathering of data, however as soon as i could tell that the "learner" was to the point where he felt uncomfortable to continue, i would have stopped.
I think that obedience can be a result of many things including fear, a reward or the alleviation of responsibility of an action. However, here fear did not play a large part rather than the other 2 as a $450 reward was given to the volunteers and the experimenter kept trying to take the responsibility for their actions. However, i was disturbed by the man who went up to 450 volts while some others refused to continue "inflicting pain", just showing the effects of these factors. Laughter i believe was caused by a momentary response to reduce tension by trying to make the action seem less bad than it was. I myself even found myself chuckling in the beginning not necessarily because i thought the pain was funny but more because it would seem awkward just sitting there. It is hard to explain for me. To me this film fascinated me as i just couldn't fathom how someone could inflict pain on someone and still continue because they were "told to". I believe that this experiment does a fantastic job highlighting a crucial characteristic of man and how it differs from individual to individual.
I think obedience comes from the desire to feel worthy and like you did something correct. People who are "good listeners" are rewarded in school, and those who follow the boss's orders in the workplace are usually top employees. It's kind of disturbing if you think about it. I used to be the kid who would always just do what I was told and never questioned authority, but that's not good. I have figured that out from this class. Also, when I was watching, I was surprised I didn't laugh. I felt like I would be somebody who would laugh along with the others, but I just didn't think it was funny. I think the laughter was a gut reaction for a lot of people or was because the situation was awkward. I can't believe people would inflict pain on strangers like that. I couldn't help but think of Jewish people begging for their lives before they were sent to concentration camps, shot, or just tortured. I literally felt sick when the guy was crying and still pulling the plug to shock the learner. If he was crying I am curious as to why he didn't listen to his emotions. Obviously his desire to please the teacher was greater than his own conscience in this case... which is disturbing. It says a lot about people in general.
I agree with Jeff's point. It was deeply troubling to me that people were so concerned with being held responsible for the learners. In this case I kind of thought responsibility translated into liability. The fact that the teacher said it would be on him if something happened to the learner actually convinced people to continue despite pleading from the learner on the other side of the wall. That is disgusting. People are usually going to put themselves first, which is why it's so dangerous to have these situations. To save yourself, you are going to make it at the expense of others.
I think obedience is caused by fear of punishment. Without some sort of punishment obedience would not exist because the action being asked would not get done. I believe that some students laughed because they could not believe that a human being could do that to another human being. They didn’t want to believe that someone would inflict pain on another person without hesitation just because someone told them to do it. Many of the volunteers seemed to want to stop the shocks after the actor complained of heart problems. They seemed concerned and did not want to be held responsible if that person died. I feel like I would have stopped giving the guy shocks after he started complaining about his heart hurting him because I would not be able to live with myself if I killed someone.
The Milgram Experiment showed a lot about human nature and related to the Nazis in many ways. Thankfully, most of the "teachers" were smart enough to stop shocking the "learner." However, the guy in the end did not follow his instinct and remained obedient to the conductor of the experiment. As the volts grew more and more intense... the pain got worse... and although he knew he was inflicting this horrible pain, he continued. He continued because he had the comfort knowing it was not his responsibility. He thought could shock the learner with all of the volts in the world and would have no form of punishment. People are obedient to please other people in certain situations. In this situation, the last volunteer in the experiment was shockingly obedient, unlike the other volunteers. Just like the Nazis, they might have not believed in what they were told, but they followed what they were told anyways. If I were participating in this experiment as a teacher, I would've stopped after one shock. I never understand why people enjoy to see other people's pain.
I think that people obey commands because they wanted to please others and be liked. i found it especially interesting when the guy was asking about who would be responsible, and once he knew that he would not be held accountable, he con tuned with the shocks. it is crazy that 50% of all the people contunied all the way to the highest shock. they knew that the guy had a heart issue and was yelling, but followed the orders anyways. people laugh to make what they are doing seem more innocent. laughter is light and happy, making harsh things softer. it also relieves tension and stress
The movie seemed crazy. I could not believe that people would knowing inflict others pain. I mean the participants were not threatened or anything but they did as asked knowing what they were doing. It is mind boggling.
I know that I am obedient because I personally am afraid of what will happen if I do not listen and I do not obey. There are some situations, however, that I would simply refuse. If I was given the experiment I would not even be able to start it. I can not inflict pain on someone else, because it hurts me even more. I don't understand how these people, these Americans could administer this test. I have to say that the laughter disturbed me. Yes, people were laughing because they were not comfortable with the situation, but I think it is very sick. Even though this experiment was fake, it had my stomach turning all throughout watching it. Especially seeing the people administer the shocks, not wanting to continue because they're worried about the learner; yet they have to go on. I identify most with the people who really refused to go any further because they did not want to hurt another human being. I think that overall this video was really interesting yet horrifying. It really gives you a sense of how easy it is to just do what you're told, even if it is wrong. However, I do not agree with that. There is no excuse to inflict pain on a fellow human being.
I thought this movie was crazy because it showed us how the Nazi would give people pain just do not saying a right question that they had to remember . It made the person that was giving the pain have choices to stop or continue. And as ling as they weren't reposible for the persons help they would continue just like the Nazi soldiers did.
I agree with what logan had to say about the experiment regarding people under the effects of pressure of authority. People not knowing the rights they have to do and what not to do. and should just know better as a whole not to interfear if they know they are harming a human being
What gives the movie a twist is how people are laughing in the midst of that video who are physically doing the shocking! the man claims he has heart problems and some people proceeded with the experiment just because they were told do so. its sicking how some people just dont have voices for themselves to know whats right from wrong unless someone tells them otherwise. and to the ones that know better, their common sense isnt flowing too far down the river.
From watching this experiment I really learned how people will just follow orders especially if they are not responsible for what they are doing. I can't believe people would actually be able to hurt other people and laugh about it after they did. It was especially hard to watch the manb who got all teh way up to 450 volts. Most of the people would object to continuing on with the experiment which shows that they know what there doing adn how they are hurting someone but then after arguing they continued shocking the learner. This experiment really does show how people will just follow orders.
From watching this experiment I really learned how people will just follow orders especially if they are not responsible for what they are doing. I can't believe people would actually be able to hurt other people and laugh about it after they did. It was especially hard to watch the manb who got all teh way up to 450 volts. Most of the people would object to continuing on with the experiment which shows that they know what there doing adn how they are hurting someone but then after arguing they continued shocking the learner. This experiment really does show how people will just follow orders.
I agree with Matt how people will just do what they are told if there is no consequence. The man that went all the way to 450 volts was told he would not be responsible for shocking the learner. I think a combination of getting payed and being told you are not responsible were the reasons why the man continued on.
I was not here during the film.
Absent
I was absent so I wasnt able to see this film. Based on many of my classmates comments it sounded very interesting.
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