Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience?
34 comments:
I was absent today.
After watching the film, I think fear of punishment encourages obedience. People will be obedient and follow the rules if they think they are going to get in trouble. If they have fear, then they will behave correctly. People will do whatever they need to in order to avoid punishment. I think the reason that some students were laughing while watching this flim is just because they were glad that it wasnt them that was "on the spot". They were glad that it wasnt them recieving the shocks or even having to give the shocks. Many of the volunteers stopped and refused to continue after hearing how much pain the learner was in. The last man however wanted to stop after hearing the scream of the learner, but he listened to his authority and continued. He was afraid of what might happen to him if he didnt continue the experiment.If I was put in the same situation as the learners, I would hope that I could stand up against the authority and do what I think was right. If given the option, I dont think I would even start the experiment in the first place.
After watching this film, I was initially shocked at the fact that some of these volunteers were laughing. I agree though, with the human behavior study that laughing is a way of reileving tension. Others did seem to show sadness and started even crying after heairng the painful cries coming form the person they were shocking. I was amazed at how this experient showed how easy it is for the adminstrators of the experiment to gain control and recieve obedience from these volunteers. It reminded me of the Nazis and how quickly they gained control over all of the German people. The man acting as the doctor in the experiement didn't physicially force the volunteer to keep goign in with the experiment, he simply only said that it "must go on." That repetitive order is what made the volunteer keep going.
I agree with Jenna. I definately feel that the fear that they will be punsihed is what keeps these people continuing on with this experiment. As long as the man knew that he would not be liable for any harm done to the man he was shocking, he continued to keep going on with the homework. Even though the last man wanted to stop after hearing the screams of the learner, he continued to listened to his authority because he was afraid of what would happen to him.
I think the trust in authority is what made the people in the Milgram Experiment continue to use the shock switch. Even though the person on the recording was begging them to stop, and they wanted to stop, they kept going. This is because the administrator repeatedly told them the shocks would not kill the person on the other side, that it was just pain. I think, when the people laughed, it was to help relieve the stress or tension they felt. When the volunteers administered the shocks, some cried, while others laughed a lot. They kept saying they shouldn’t continue the experiment, but they did. When they continued, the person on the recording said he would not answer the questions and the voice stopped screaming when the shocks got to a certain level. The volunteers decided whether to stop based on what their administrator told them.
I think that obedience is encouraged because many people want to fit in with society and belong to a larger picture, not stand out as an individual. I think this obedient behavior is not caused by a fear of punishment, but by a fear of being alone. To go along with a group of people is to be safe, but to stand out is to be isolated. When one is in a group, they do not have to feel responsible for their actions - they have the option of putting their actions on the shoulder of the group. I think this tendency want to be a part of a group could be caused by insecurity or a lack of self-confidence by the individual.
I think that the laughter can be explained as a relief from stress. From the expressions shown on the teachers’ faces during the film, they seemed very tense and nervous. This feeling of stress may have been caused by the concern for the person in the other room or the challenge of standing up as an individual to say, “this is wrong” and leave. When the proctor said to the teachers, “if you stop, the experiment will be ruined,” this complicated the situation. If the teacher was to stop, he or she would have to stand up against the proctor and the people that designed the experiment. I think it is easier to stand up to one person than a group of people. That is why I think the teachers had a hard time standing up to the proctor and kept following his orders to continue the experiment. I think their security and self-confidence levels affected how they responded.
After watching this film, I have concluded, in my opinion, that obediance can be encouraged through a combination of things. Such as fear, the desire to please and to jump on the band wagon despite their own personal feelings. Ifeel that it is all the matter of having a strong mind and sticking to what you feel in your gut. Some of the volunteers in the videos were weak as to trying to stop and realizing that they're hurting the test subject. Others were actually strong willed and were able to physically stop and say "no" to the research proffessor despit what he said of the experiment. some of the students in class, I felt, laughed because the test subject kept on insisting that he should stop but went on anyways.
I agree with Erica. Laughter is way to releive your stress. I felt that the volunteer was nervously laughing to try and take away he stress he had from shocking the test subject.
I think there are several factors that influence obedience including the fear of punishment and also a desire to please and fit in with the group. I also believe that a belief or faith in authority also contributes to people's obedience. For instance in the video it was mentioned that one of the men admitted that he had no knowledge about the shocks but assumed that the experimenter was highly knowledgeable about the shocks capabilities. Many people who were doing the shocking did laugh through out the session. This does not mean they enjoyed the other people's pain but simply were nervous and experienced some nervous laughter. Then as the experiment continued the stress of hurting the learner, messing up the experiment and angering the experimenter all lingered over the teachers head. Some people would not continue until they were assured that they were not to blame if anything bad happened to the student. Some people decided to stop when they got to the point where their moral compass told them they were doing something bad. When others didn't stop until the experiment was over because the experimenter continued to tell them to continue the experiment. I identified most with the man who gave the shocks but refused to continue as soon as the learner asked him to stop and to get out of there.
I agree with Erica and was also shocked at how easily the experimenter was able to gain control over the teachers by simply giving the appearance that he was a professional and continuously saying that they "must go on".
The teachers were pressured to be obedient becuase they were afraid they would mess up the experiment if they didn't continue. They were made to believe that they didn't have another choice but to continue with the experiment. By isolating them, the experimentor had control over the teacher and made them feel like they didn't have any options out of theri situation. I think people laughed at first because they thought the learner's cry of shock was funny to them. AS shocks became more servere however, laughing died down becuase the shocks could be fatal to the learner. As the teachers administered the shocks, some even began to cry. They were scarred for the leaner. They would ask the experimentor to stop or check on the learner. For those who stopped, they did so after the learner started complaining about thier heart and begged for the experiment to end. If I were in the situtation of the teacher, I think I would stop the experiment once the learner asked me to stop. I couldn't inflict pain on someone.
I aree with Brendan when he says people are obedient becuase they want to fit in with society. There may be fear to go against what seems to be the authority figure. It took a lot of courage to go against the experiment leader, which not all teachers had.
What I saw in the film was actually very interesting. I didn't think that anyone at all would venture past the 300 range but there were people who actually did! It was crazy to see how these people would just willingly object these people to do whatever they wanted. To some the crys of pain and agony were simply ignored by the guide of the person setting up the experiment. One of the things that Mr. Gallagher had told us at the beginning of the year was that by the end of the year we would agree that if we were in nazi germany at the time of hitler's rise to power, we would have supported him. What I saw here was people's willingness to just do what their told. no matter how insane the task would sound that most people would just do what they're told. With the coupling of the propaganda this could only lead to bad things and places.
This film makes me sad just because of the truth that the movie conveys. This movie truly shows that people will do what others say just to avoid punishment. It is similar to why everybody hailed to Hitler and nobody stood up for what they truly believed in. I think that the reason why some of the people were laughing when giving this test was because it wasn't them who was being shocked. Many of the "teachers" were concerned for the people and said they would not continue with the test. They continued with the test when the man told them that the shock could not really hurt them and to continue giving the test. The teachers said they wanted to stop giving the test, but they never actually stopped. One of the men's excuse at the end was that the authority told him to keep going. That is never an excuse and it is sad to see that these people were so scared of punishment that they continued to do something they did not believe was right.
I agree with Erica that this film shows why it was so easy for Hitler to gain such power over everybody. This film conveyed that people would do something that they may not have believed in, just to avoid punishment. It shows the reason why nobody would stand up for what they believed in at the time when Hitler had such control.
During watching the film I felt fear about the experiments. And I surprised at some of reaction from people who are laughing. From this experiment, I could see the variety of reaction about giving the shocks to a person when that person got wrong answer. Most of volunteers didn't want to continue the experiment, because they heard the scream of pain from who was shocking by volunteers. And the one man who was last volunteer, He wanted to stop this experiment because the learner didn't answer anything. He asked the authority to check the learner but the authority said keep going. During the lab, he cried and kept shock the learner. It was painful to watch when he cried and keep switching the shocking button to the learner even he didn't want to do that.
I've now watched the Milgram Experiment a couple times and each time I seem to understand more about why the teachers did what they did and how they felt during the experience. The laughter is a clear display of anxiety or a relief of tension. Nobody laughs at the situation at hand, they laugh about how ridiculous what is happening seems, but how nervous they are to continue. It's a clear "nervous laugh". The teachers at first seemed Ok with the process, but after hearing the man scream and complain about his heart condition, many started to question their actions. One man broke out into tears, thinking he might have killed the patient. It's disturbing how he continued to go on with the process, simply because a man in a lab coat told him to do so. I do not blame the man, but rather human nature. I couldn't necessarily relate to any of the volunteers, but I wonder what I would have done in this situation. Sure, I'd like to say i wouldn't inflict harm on another human being, but I truly wonder if I would have the obedience to step away. Obedience is something that a person is not born with, but rather obtains throughout their life. In certain situations, a person may be extremely obedient, while they may crumble in another. The Milgram Experiment shows us a perfectly, realistic representation of how people's values and morals may be disregarded in extreme circumstances.
After watching this film I could understand why some of them laughed because it wasn't a funny laugh it was a laugh saying that what they are doing is crazy. Also how can they keep going on with the experiment because you are hurting someone and thinking they have a shot of dying because they thought they were rely shocking them. Also they thought they needed to go on with the experiment because they signed up for it but many refused to continue because they weren't willing to hurt the person anymore than they have already done. They knew to stop because the person was complaining and they knew if they were in the other persons situation they would want they to also stop. ALso people follow groups because they don't want to stand out everyone likes to fit in so they are not alone and stand out like a sore thumb. ALso don't want people to be judging them.
I agree with Jesse that obedience the people had was wanting to fit in the group and didn't want to stick out. Also how people laugh made them think this was stupid and pointless hurting someone for getting an answer wrong.
After watching the film, I believe that authority encourages obedience. For example in the film the tester listens to everything the scientist says, like the shocks were painful not dangerous or how he told the tester keep going even though he knew something was wrong. The scientist had the authority to make him continue and influenced him to further the experiment because he proved to the tester everything was all right.
Students may have laughed because of the sheer disbelief of the experiment. It was bad so a laugh would break the tension.
As the testers administered the tests they were okay with it in the beginning until the shocked produced screams and pounding from the person acting in the other room. They refused to contiue because the person was clearly in pain. The testers didn't not stop because they were to told to continue the experiment and they had to finish but the voltage would increase which were dangerous.
I don't think I could get very far in the experiment knowing that I was purposely harming someone even though the scientist would take the blame, it would still be my doing. I wouldn't want to be the bystander in that situation.
I agree with Max that it was disturbing the tester continued administering shocks, when he thought he killed him from previous shocks just beacuse the guy in the white coat said it would be alright
I believe that obedience is brought on by fear more than anything else. People don't want to be punished for messing up so people try their hardest to do a good job and too avoid physical or mental abuse. I think that laughter is used to cover up tue feelings of fear. It's a shield that allows people to mask their real feelings and kind of keep themselves under the radar. In the case of the teacher, I believe that the laughter was used to try and justify what they were doing. Also it may have made them feel better and possibly think that why they were doing was not that bad, they were just following orders. When the teacher gave the shock to student there was a look of concern. They had felt that they were hurting someone and it was apparent that that bothered them. A lot of the teachers refused to continue the experiment due to th fact that they believed they were seriously hurting the person answering the questions. Many of the teachers simply refused to go on. I did. It personally identify with any of the teachers in Obedience.
It was really scary that people would even agree to shock people for an experiment. But what was comforting was the fact that if the student got into "real" danger the majority would stop. This experiment is difficult too because they trusted n loved their leadern these americans in the test listened to strangers. It was an amazing eye opener of the realility of people espessially americans who strictly just blame the germans and caant see that we did practially the same thing
In this film I think most people were obedient because they thought they had or they could be the ones getting shocked next. As for the laughter, I tend to laugh when I'm uncomfortable or nervous, and some of them looked really nervous. Most of these people were uncomfortable shocking people, and took their finger off the switch very quickly. For me, I would probably, go far into the experiment before I'd speak up.
I agree with Anna that the "teachers" were made to believe that they had to do the experiment. They were afraid of ruining it and being punished for it.
I thought that this film was very interesting and thought provoking. The different reactions people had after inflicting pain and punishment upon others showed the moral conflict that they were faced with. The people couldn't decide to continue the experiment or stop. The last "teacher" was very upset. He showed true concern for the man and yet he kept going when he was told to continue. The experiment just shows how easily people can be persuaded to do something, despite their initial resistance.
I agree with what Aidan said about the teachers' obedience being because of their trust in authority. They did not resist because they trusted that the people in charge would tell them the right thing to do.
I think fear of punishment, is one factor for obedience and also our culture has brought us up that obedience is good and disobeying is bad. Even for things we don't fully understand. I think the reason for laughter during the film was that people were nervous and that caused the laughing. They were nervous because they didn't fully understand what was happening to the other person but to their knowledge they were hurting them. Many of the volunteers did stop and question what they were doing but with the authority figure right there, would continue with him telling them to do so. This shows the power and authority figure has over people. What bothered me was that the last man kept asking "you accept all responsibility for this" as if that was the only thing he was concerned about was getting in trouble for killing a man, he just didn't want the blame. Then also though it seems he knew he shouldn't continue the experiment because of the pain the other man was going through, yet he still continued. If I was in the experiment I really don't know what I would do. I would like to say I would stop but in all honesty I don't know if I would if I was being reassured it was not dangerous.
I agree with Erica, I was surprised with how easily the experimenter was able to control the teacher. He did not raise his voice or use strong words, he used calm language and nice words yet still controlled the teacher. He used words like "please" which seems to me not to be very demanding yet the teacher still went on.
I found the Milgram experiment to be very thought-provoking. All these US citizens were told to shock another person, and they did so, even after many had realized that they were possibly injuring the other man. It makes me wonder what possesses these people to go against their own moral compass just to follow directions of a superior. It also makes me question what some people would be willing to do to others under the supervision of someone with even more control, such as a police officer or the president. It truely shows what people can be made to do through fear. I agreed with Jenna when she mentioned how fear of punishment controls these people. This experiment was a good example that under any fear, especially the ultimate fear of death, people are willing to do anything to survive.
I feel that obedience spawns from not the desire to please, but the desire to not displease. These people in the experiment room didn't know the professor, and had no reason to want to strive to gain his adulation, but they for the most part obeyed him when he would say to continue. I think it was more of that they didn't want to botch the experiment for the professor who had spent a lot of time to set it up.
I found myself laughing at some points in the film, not because I felt awkward or that the situation was humorous, but at certain points the look on some of the people's faces were too funny. For instance, when the one man was laughing to himself while he was doing the lower shocks, I found myself laughing too just because of the slap-stick style that the small shocks had. As it got more serious, however, I found myself to not be laughing.
I related more to the first guy who was laughing at first during the smaller shocks but later stopped when it got serious. I would have been doing basically the same thing but halted the shocks when the man brought up his heart conditions.
After watching this film i think that fear and repeated commands encourage obedience. No matter what the teacher wanted to do the expierement leader just kept telling them to continue shocking the worker. They were afraid to stop because of the fear of what would come after. The use of stern commands also kept the teachers going throughout the expireiment.
The teachers didnt seem to enjoy giving the shocks and they seemed very stressed out about it... one man even began to cry. Another man chuckled a bit but it seemed to be out of discomort. There was a huge level of stress and confusion in the room, the volunteers just wanted to stop but they were mentally being forced to continue/
I agree with Max in the fact that it was disturbing to see the person continue shocking the other volunteer because of how they were reacting to the shocks, however it is understandable on why they kept going. Its hard to put yourself in the shoes of the shocker.
I think that the fear of punishment encourages obidience. If your scared that your going to get in trouble your going to follow the rules such as in this case I the people shocked the other people because they were told to and they were scared that if they didnt they would get punished as well. Although the Dr. conducting th eexperiment didnt really threaten them if they didnt continue all he said was "please continue" they listened to the authority and kept doing it. I hope that if I was put in this situation I would of stood up and not have continued the experiment or not have done it at all.
I agree with Erica I think people do laugh to releave tension. Sometime swhen people get nervous they laugh. I also thought it was rediculous how easy it was for them to gain control.
I was certainly most surprised by the immediate influence a lack of responsibility had upon the subjects. According to the film, it appeared that obedience is derived from the prevailing belief in some sort of resident authority, where accountability is laid upon those in positions of authority and those that are not in such positions are psychologically obligated to obey those with the responsibility of authority and its inferred superiority and consequent control. I think the laughter was a product of the tension and the mind's reaction to the unique circumstance of that individual causing physical harm to another.
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