Sunday, September 30, 2007
Discussion of Intellectual Honesty
The other day, a student asked me why an answer he gave for one of the questions on a quiz was wrong. I asked him, "Do you also want to know why the answers you got right - were right?" The student said to me, "No, I got those questions right. I only want to know why my answer was wrong." I then said to the student, after much discussion with the class, "Let me ask you this question; do you care more about the answer or more about the grade that you received?" Before the student could answer me, I asked the class to look up the meaning of "Intellectual Honesty." I put the following before the class for discussion. "What does Intellectual Honesty mean to you? "What do you think is the larger issue or point of the exercise?" For discussion purposes, you should also comment on at least one other student's post.
50 comments:
I think that intellectual honesty is usually ignored by us, the students, because we are taught to get good grades, and when we do get things wrong, we want to know why, but when we get questions right, we accept that we don't need to find out how we got it right because if nothing's wrong with it, then we don't have to fix it.
Intellectual honesty is the rules by which all people should abide by when involved with education. It is the common curtousy that enables the person who did the research and the work to get the credit for it. Intellectual Honesty is a concept used when using other peoples' work to enhance yours. Using other peoples' work to enhance one's own work is okay in certain situtations as long as you site them and their information as not being yours. The bigger picture is that everyone wants to add to the world of knowledge, but there are proper ways to do it. You need to want to learn the information for yourself. I think what veetekat, r said was completely true. Maybe we should all work to take advantage of our learning opportunities more.
In response to the prior comments made, though I agree that people don't take advantage of their educations, I don't really see how intellectual honesty applies to this situation. Hopefully, people have confidence and evidence to support their information and don't just state things based on opinion or on a whim.
I believe that intellectual honesty is how one goes about gathering (learning) information, and transfers it into their own thoughts for their own use. I believe that this must be done fairly (i.e. citing works). I can see where veetekat, r and josephs, m are coming from by saying that it does not apply to the case presented in class, however I somewhat disagree in the sense that intellectual honesty (at least to me) includes the desire for information in uses other than just grading purposes which in my own oppinion happened only partially here.
I think intellectual honesty is: being involved in education and no cheating on assessments that tests your individual knowledge on the material being taught. I think the larger issue is that many kids want to get perfect scores on tests/quizes and when they find out they didn't, they try and get as many points as they can by trying to correct the teacher. Now, im not criticizing josephs,m, in fatc if i got a question wrong on that quiz i also would have asked "why is this wrong."
Yo, Intellectual honesty is pretty much being intellectually honest with your school work...in other words its being honest with yourself and not exhibiting such behaviors as cheating , plagiarism,and stealing other peoples work and saying its your own.
Also..i think that everybody has plagiarized at least once in their life, for example, if you have ever copied down the definition of a dictionary that would technically be considered plagiarism.
Oh and one more thing, i agree with M.J.
I really have no idea how intellectual honesty applies to his situation...im confused
I think that intellectual honesty is the unwritten set of rules which all faculty members and students in the educational setting should follow. To some extent, these rules are written down. For exmaple in our high school handbook plagiarism is strictly forbidden. The handbook doesn't cover all instances a student or faculty member might find themselves in; which is where intellectual honesty comes into play. Intellectual honesty is almost like your education concious. It lets you know when you are making a bad decision like cheating or plagiarizing. Studetns today only care about the grading system, but not the reasoning behind it. The job of a student is to learn as much as you can and to be intellectually honest with yourself. Part of the process is understanding why you got an answer to a question wrong for the sake of your development as a student. Another part of the process is understanding why you got an answer right, too. After reviewing the situtation about 'the student' and witnessing it first hand, I really don't see how intellectual honesty applies in this situation. I think that the 'student' was intellectually honest with himself, by questioning the reasoning behind the correct answer.
In response to what josephs, m has said; I would like to quesiton just one thing. Why do you keep saying fact? Who said that our history textbook was 100% true? Bias opinions play a huge role in this situation here. The quizzes that we take in class might not even quiz us on 'the truth.' The 'student' who got the answer wrong on the quiz could have been right; but the book said no. Just because the book said otherwise doesn't mean that 'the student's' answer wasn't right. Since there is so much pressure on students today to succeed, I think that they resort to cheating in fear of misrepresenting data that they are told is true. When students have opinions, different answers to questions arise; therefore getting answers wrong and the pressure to do better next time.
Intellectual honesty in my eyes is not taking short cuts when it comes to learning. To be intellectually honest people have to accept the fact of when they are trying to learn the material given to them or just absorbing it for a short period of time in which they can dispose of it later. The larger issue is alot of students are intellectually dishonest so they can get ahead. They figure if I get the work done, what does it matter if I didn't learn it.
As for Aramini's post, I agree with them on the fact that we have a set of rules and quidelines that our school follows, but intellectual honesty is something that everyone needs to follow themselves, even if it isn't written.
I think intellectual honesty means that students should value the actual material that they learn more than the grade that is received. Today, most students only care about their grades, but not why certain information is right or wrong. I also think Intellectual Honesty means not cheating or plagairising, so the student is able to exhibit what they actually know. I agree with Bryan Rivas in that intellectual honesty is really just being honest to yourself and making sure you don't cheat or use plagairism.
I think that intellectual honesty is something you need to do because it is morally correct, not just because a teacher tells you to do. Intellectual honesty is use your own ideas and work with others as well while still formulating individual opinions. I think what dayotas,l said is important on how students just memorize facts, not caring how they obtained the information. Even though grades are important, being intellectually honest is far more important because you can gather information and process it in an ethical way.
In the question asked by josephs, m. I think when he was answering the question he didn't think of the information he read about in order to answer the question. I think he just missed backing up his answer with text from the book.
In my opinion, intellectual honesty is a part of ethincs, because it is what is honorably correct. One is not told what is intellectually correct, rather, they have an inner sense, or conscious, that tells them what is right. Intellectual honesty is an unemotional, logical and truthful expression of the truth with out omission of supporting facts. Therefore, I think that intellectual honesty often takes a back seat to good grades, because as students were are constantly reminded of the importance of good grades. However, in my opinion, intellectual honesty is a very imprtant issue that needs to be adressed more often.
I agree with R.V. in that students are so pounded with the idea that getting good grades is all that really matters and we forget that learning the material is what should really be our number one goal. We have no need to question when something is right because we acheieved our goal, as students striving for good grades. When something is wrong, however, we find the need the question the authority of the teachers and either improve the given score or better ourselfs for the next examination.
I personally think that intellectual honesty is being honest with one's self when it comes to learning or education in general. This means that one doesn't cheat or plagerize. Also, one must accept that not everything they learn is totally true. Also, I agree with what T.O. said about not really caring either way as a student, as long as the answer is correct or being able to gain points when an answer is wrong by proving the student's point. I am confused on how this pertains to the 'student's' question too.
I agree with Veetekat,R. and that
intellectual honesty is ofthen ignored by students, because we are just taught to get goods grades. Also, that when we get things right we don't give that question a second glance, because there is nothing to fix.
I think that intellectual honesty is being correct and going about getting information in a specific and regulated way. i understand what Hastings, R. means when she said that as students we are basically brought up to think that the grade is what matters most, as opposed to the idea that it's important to understand what you're answering correct, and why it is so.
I think that intellectual honesty is an appreciation for learned information and the effort put into obtaining it. It is easy to memorize dates and names, but is one really understanding and putting effort into that material? By cheating, plagarizing, etc, a student devalues the educational intent of the subject matter involved. Learning takes effort - intellectual honesty is the act of putting in that effort. Like with anything else that takes work, you get out what you put into it. If a student has a desire and respect for the process of learning, the information will be retained and a much greater understanding will be reached.
In response to rivas, b, I think that intellectual honesty reaches further than just schoolwork. We are constantly taking in information, and it is up to us whether or not we absorb it. The honest decision is to learn it and understand it fully before we say we know the topic. The dishonest decision is to learn it, say we know it, then move on.
I think that intellectual honesty is trying to get the most out of your own work. It is alright to get information from other sources as long as you cite them, but the point of getting information from other sources is to increase your knowledge on the subject. If you are getting information just for the purpose of increasing your grade, then you aren't being intellectual honesty. The larger issue is people are willing to cheat and copy other people's works if they get something positive out of it for themselves. This is not being intellectually honest because you aren't showing what you know. By copying someone else's work you are not learning anything. I agree with what rohald, j said. It is the transfer of the information a person gathered to use of that information for themselves that shows their intellectual honesty.
I think that intelluctual honesty is when learning from a source and than restating your ideas about that source, you must give credit to the person who did the research so that you could learn from it. This must also be done so you don't plagarize other peoples work so you need to cite your sources. The larger issue is that we have been taught that you will be succesful if you go to college, than to go to college you need to get good grades. So the focus has been put on the grades and not on the actual learning of the material. I also agree with Josephs that intellectuall honesty does not really apply to this situation it just seems that a student wanted to understand why a question was incorrect to correct his initial knowledge of the situation.
Intellectual honesty is when a student is doing an assignment and originates his/her ideas from what they learned. They don't copy anyone else's ideas, they are influenced and put them into consideration. I agree with Veetekat, R. that intellectual honesty is ignored because of the pressure of getting good grades.
I think that Intellectual Honesty is the underlying message and rules that students and administratores are supposed to follow. It sets out the guidelines, based upon the morals of what is right and wrong. This gives the writer acknowledgement for their work and the credit that they fully deserve. Though, if somebody were to utilize someone else's information and then were to site their source, then this wouldn't be a form of cheating, it would simply be an attribute to what they are writing. Also if they site their source, then this wouldn't be considered plagarism.
I agree with veetekat, r. in the fact that many people are taught by their parents, and the other students around them to get good grades. The pressure to do well and compare with others is so strong, then many forget about honesty and what is actually right.
In my opinion, intellectual honesty is a common and important rule that all those in school should abide by. Intellectual honesty says that the work and the understanding of the work is what matters, not the grade. Doing your own work is so important because in completing it, you increase your undersatnding of the subject. We often only look and think about the grade that is recieved rather then the work. We also only care about why something is incorrect rather then why they are correct. We should be more focused on understanding why something is correct because we can expand our knowledge.
I agree with veetekat,r. They explain that the work is more important then the grade. They also say that we need to understand why something is correct and not just why something isn't correct. We need to expand our knowledge by doing our own work and always trying to learn more about the correct answers.
Intellectual honesty is when a student is doing an assignment and from that assignment, they originate his or her own ideas. This means that they do not completely copy anyone else's ideas but puts their own thoughts into it. I agree with Veetekat, R. that intellectual honesty is usually not used because students focus more on getting good grades and getting their assignments completed.
I believe that intellectual honesty is the ability to make wise decisions and to avoid using methods such as cheating or plagiarism,even if they are an easy way out of a situation. I agree with dayotas,l when she said it is something inside everyone, like a conscience that helps us make the right decisions. By cheating and plagarizing,one is just hurting themself, because then they will miss out on a learning experience.It is better to take the time and learn something, rather than rely on others, because the information could be helpful in the future. I also agree that students today are more concerned about their grades than actually knowing the information, and I think it is because we have so much pressure on grades and college, and the letter grade can determine that.
After reading everyone else's definitions of intellectual honesty, it's nearly impossible to be intellectually honest while answer the question. But before reading everything, I would have said what everyone else already has, that intellectual honesty is citing where you have gotten information from, and when giving information only giving non-biased unless you label it as your opinion. I also agree with Rohald, it has to do with getting information for the right reason, and not to memorize it for a good grade. I also agree with Veetakat and Joesphs, this situation doesn't really have to do with intellectual honesty because Joesphs was trying to straighten out his facts, and he already understood the facts involved with the questions he got right.
To me, being intellectually honest means that you do not cheat or plagarize in school. It also means that you put an effort into learning information for your own benefit. Often times in school, we only learn information to do well on tests, quizzes, and other assignments. As soon as we are graded, we forget all of the information we have just studied. I agree with Armand in that students are taught from an early age to get good grades. We are taught that in order to go to college and later be successful, we must recieve good grades in school. Because we have several classes and lots of information to retain, we learn material for the short term, get tested, then forget the information we just studied.
I believe that intellectual honesty means just being honest when sharing other student's work, working in groups, or using someone's else's ideas/thoughts. Like many posts before, it's just a common courtesy used in education and even in real life too. You should just give credit to a person when it's due, whether it's for their thoughts, writings, etc. I also agree with dayotas, l when she states that most students are intellectually dishonest and they just do the work and don't care if they don't learn it. Also, that was one form of intellectual honesty right there! :) , giving dayotas, l credit for her words.
I agree with melvin, c when he says that we are taught just to get the good grades in order to go to college and that after the test/quiz we just forget. I think that nothing will ever change about that because students really just want the grades! Most students really only remember information that they were interested in and forget about it after the assessment, which is actually exactly what I did after my biology test! :)
Intellectual honesty is acknowledging ideas borrowed from another person. Being intellectually dishonest is plagiarizing, or taking someone else's work as your own. although I don't think that it happens a lot in our school, I think that often times people will "borrow" homework as their own so they can get a good grade. I agree with what arimini said about fact and being more wary of what we trust. We blindly trust text books because we know that the test will be based off the information in the book whether we trust it or not.
I think that intellectual honesty is avoiding problems like plagiarism, cheating, copying, etc. It's also looking studying with a purpose of learning and knowledge, not necessarily just for a good grade. I think that what James Kwan said was true about how a typical student at Westborough High School will just read a text book and just accept everything in it due to the fact that this is the material that we'll be tested on. I'd say that most students are really out to get the grade more so than the information, and tend to memorize as opposed to absorbing and learning.
I think a everyone already covered a lot of what intellectual honesty means. To me, intellectual honesty isn't only getting information truthfully, like not cheating or plagerizing, but also how you display or share your knowledge. For example, if you know something, you wouldn't tell someone else something else that wasn't true because that would be lying and being intellectually dishonest, since now the information they have is false. I think to be intellectually honest you need to be honest about how you get your information, that you dont steal it from someone else, and you also need to be honest about how you present your knowledge to someone else.
I really agree with fotos, n when he said "Today, most students only care about their grades, but not why certain information is right or wrong." this shows how intellectually dishonest we are today, and we really need to work on focusing on the knowledge rather than the grades so we wont resort to cheating.
Going along with that idea, because we want good grades, we all question the teacher when we get something wrong hoping that maybe the teacher made a mistake. Responding to a lot of you who said the student's scenario didn't relate to intellectual honesty, i think it might, because the "student" was doubting the intellectual honesty of the teacher. By asking "why is this wrong," we actually think that we're right and the teacher has a mistake in his knowledge. that the teacher isn't capable of transmitting his ideas and knowledge onto paper, and thus making us get the question wrong. But we shouldn't doubt the teacher and his intelligence, because he proabably has more knowledge than we do and his knowledge is probably more right than ours, so by asking "why is this wrong," we're questioning the teachers intellectual honesty, which is wrong.
I think that intellectual honesty is how you obtain information and transfer it into your own thoughts and words, keeping in mind of not plagiarizing. I also think that students should value more the content of an assessment than rather the grades they recieve. Although, I admit that when I get back any type of assesment I look to see why my answers were wrong that were marked incorrect and I don't seem to care really about why the answers I got correct were indeed correct. I think this is a problem that faces many students. As mentioned in other posts, intellectual honesty is just a courtesy used in education and also in real life. You should give credit to a person if you use their information, like creating a works cited page for a research paper.
I agree with hastings,r because this person mentioned that everyone's level intellectual honesty is different because of the fact that your inner sense or conscious is different that others. I also agree with this person that us, students, have it programed into our mind that the purpose of school is to basically get good grades so you can have a better life. Intellectual honesty should be addressed more often, because before this class I never knew what intellectual honesty was.
Whenever I think of intellectual honesty I think of learning the material so that not only you get a good grade, but you understand it very well. Following rules is a huge deal, because if you are looking over at somebody's test when you're stuck that shows that you aren't an honest person in general. In my opinion I think its very important that people try to get a good grade by abiding all the rules.
I think that intellectual honesty is the required quality of a person in class and in life, where one displays what he alone is capable of, whether it is in a composition, a speech, participation in class, and tell your audience whenever you are using another person's concept, etc. This would mean getting rid of plagiarism in any form, whether it is in oral or written form. Intellectual honesty is simply a given at any point in life. However, looking at what Mr. Gallagher posted on the blog, my definition of intellectual honesty has next to nothing as far as relationship goes (agreeing with m. josephs). Therefore, if relating to the posted events, I believe that intellectual honesty can also mean what you honestly care about as far as intellectual facts go(?). In other words, it would be what one cares about when it comes to facts-I guess what i am trying to get at is that there are some of us who honestly care simply on our grades, or what we could learn from them(?)
I took a swing at how intellectual honesty has anything to do with what happened in class, but i'm confused too, like m. josephs. hope the swing snitched the ball or something. (foul?)
Campos, E.
Today people study to get a good grade so they can do well in the course and eventually get into college. Most people forget the things that they learn from the prior years because they just study to do well on the tests not to actually learn and understand the material. We only ask why we got the answer incorrect because usually just want to see if we can get any extra points or if the teacher had a grading mistake. Intellectual Honesty is where people study for tests and quizzes not only to get a good grade but also to understand and comprehend what you are learning so that they can use it later in there life. I agree with Rivas, B when he said that that cheating and stealing other peoples work is not benefiting you in any way it is only hurting you because when you need the information you wont be able to understand because you didn't actually study the material.
I'd have to agree with M. Joseph's on this debate on the matter of where intellectual honesty plays a role in this dilemna. From what i have read, intellectual honesty refers to plagiarism and other student's work and other rules that may be considered cheating in education. I just dont understand how this concept takes part in the scenario of knowing whether he really wanted to know what he got wrong or the ones he got right. By reading other comments on this discussion, i also agree with R.V when he said that we are taught to get good grades instead of gaining knowledge. I believe that M.Josephs asked this question because he was more concerned about his grade rather than the matter of obtaining a better understanding.
intellectual honesty is knowing what it is you know and willing to change it if its not true. It is also lack of ignorance, because as humans, we want to be right all the time.
i agree with cincotta a. i believe intellectual honesy is the rules we have to follow, such as you shouldn't copy or plagrize someone elses work. I also think that many students dont care as much about the learning just the grade. Students are taught and encourged to get good grades and are often punished or taken off a team if they don't. Even though its important to know or remember certain information many students disregard this because teachers have no way of grading you on it.
Today the majority of students, care little about learning and retaining information, and instead focus their attention on recieving good grades. As soon as they've taken the test, the information goes right out their head. Therefore, the majority of students, including myself, don't take notice to what questions they get right. Very few tend to look over tests or assesments they did well on, becuase they got the grade that they had hoped for. Intellectual honesty has to do with actually learning and retaining the information for the purpose of learning it, rather than doing well on a test. Therefore i have to agree with Campos E, when he said that most students ask their teacher about an incorrect answer in order to recieve more points, rather than to understand the information. People are so focused today on getting good grades, so that they can get into a good college, that they will do almost anything to achieve that goal; even if that means doing things they know are morally wrong.
Today the majority of students, care little about learning and retaining information, and instead focus their attention on recieving good grades. As soon as they've taken the test, the information goes right out their head. Therefore, the majority of students, including myself, don't take notice to what questions they get right. Very few tend to look over tests or assesments they did well on, becuase they got the grade that they had hoped for. Intellectual honesty has to do with actually learning and retaining the information for the purpose of learning it, rather than doing well on a test. Therefore i have to agree with Campos E, when he said that most students ask their teacher about an incorrect answer in order to recieve more points, rather than to understand the information. People are so focused today on getting good grades, so that they can get into a good college, that they will do almost anything to achieve that goal; even if that means doing things they know are morally wrong.
After our quiz last week, i had the same question as M. Josephs. Why did i get questions 3 wrong? People don't care about what questions they got right .. they want to know what they get wrong. Most people today, especially in schools, care about getting the "A". They don't even take the information they learned on with them. All people care about is getting that A, so they can succeed in high school, and advance to a good college, which leads to a good life. After someone gets something right .. they don't care how or why they got it right. They are just satisfied with the idea that "they got it right". The reason people want to know what they got wrong is beacuse they want to get it correct in the future. By getting it correct in the future, they are one step closer to recieving their "A". Today, it isn't too often that you come across the student that really cares about learning the information. Most students want to learn it so they can get the grade they want it. It's weird what society has finally come to. Were people like this 20 years ago? Have people always been this fanatical about getting the "A"?
meshrekye
the meaning of intellectual honesty to me, is being honest through your work. whether its cheating on a test, or plagiarism, a student should be mindful to stay away from this. its common for students to be upset about the bad grades they recieve rather than the good ones, because its human nautre to want to wnat good grades rahter than learn more about the good grade you already got. i strongly agree with what lonsteina said, in that its alright if you cite your work.
I think intellectual honesty is present everywhere, every single day. In school, all people care about is getting the grade .. or getting that "A". By getting the grade, students can excell in school and then advance to college. That's really what everyones working for isn't it? I see it as a series of events. You start off in school, which is the foundation for where you will go in life, and then go to college, and enter the "real world". When a student finds out their answer is right .. the case is closed. If a student finds out their answer is wrong ..they want to find out why it's wrong so they can get it next time. By getting it next time they are one step closer to achieving their "A".
Intellectual honesty is the act of maintaining honesty when interacting with objective information. In other words, it is insuring that the objective information at hand is, in fact, truthful. Assumptions, opinions, and biased information are not fact and thus do not fall under this catagory. Therefore, while being intellectually honest, one must consider the validity and reliability of information. This concept applies to the stated scenario in that, the truthfulness of information is more important than the accepted beliefs regarding that information. That is to say, the student mentioned in the original post should have been more concerned with correctness of the information in general rather than the correctness of his answers. However, society would lead one to believe that the latter is of greater importance, which is very much true in today's world. However, on a more general, global, almost ethical scale, the truthfulness of the information is far more important. Because we accept the information presented to us in an educational enviroment to be fact, we compare our answers to said information, while we should be comparing said information to fact. Technically, the student's objective was, in my opinion, the right one. In the position we are in, we are forced to accept the information taught to us in school to be true. Therefore, having the correct answer on a test is all that matters to us as students and members of society.
I have to agree with Walthal W. I think intellectual honesty is how well you know the material, not your peers. I think that many students are only concerned with the grade, and not how well they learn the material. One reason this could be is becuase parents, especially in Westborough, put so much pressure on kids to get a good grade and go to college.
I completely agree with other like Katie M are saying. Everyday we go into school not caring about what we learn, but how hard it is going to be to memorize for our next test. The all-important 'A' is all the student ever cares about, and with pressure from parents and peers, it is all about memorizing information for the upcoming test. It is almost like the information goes in through one ear stays there for a week or so and then goes out the other ear. Yet, I have to say the reason students memorize information is because the schools force students to memorize. This is simply becuase it is the easiest way to get that A on the test so that we can get into a good college and get a good job. No one has told us not to memorize, and if it is the easiest way for us to become succesful in life, then everyone is going to memorize, defying intellectual honesty.
*you misspelled student in your blog*
harpin, d said...
I completely agree with others like Katie M are saying. Everyday we go into school not caring about what we learn, but how hard it is going to be to memorize for our next test. The all-important 'A' is all the student ever cares about, and with pressure from parents and peers, it is all about memorizing information for the upcoming test. It is almost like the information goes in through one ear stays there for a week or so and then goes out the other ear. Yet, I have to say the reason students memorize information is because the schools force students to memorize. This is simply becuase it is the easiest way to get that A on the test so that we can get into a good college and get a good job. No one has told us not to memorize, and if it is the easiest way for us to become succesful in life, then everyone is going to memorize, defying intellectual honesty.
*you misspelled student in your blog*
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