Dr. Stanley Milgram defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment; a desire to please; or is it a need to go along with the group? As some students watched the film Obedience, they laughed at the people receiving the shocks. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did some of the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How and when did they decide to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? What did you learn that you didn't know before you watched this film?
34 comments:
i liked how straight to the point the instructor-type was.
it was funny how they were electrifying the test subject
I thought that the guy was slow and the fact that he could only realize he had "a choice" to electricute the other guy was after he had reached 150 volts is depressing
I agree with Mankah that it is sad that the man was willing to do 150 volts of electric shock until he realized it was wrong. I also believe that people are influenced by others and since there was a man who seemed to be educated and knew what he was doing it caused people to follow orders.
I think it was pretty crazy that the guy was willing to do 150 volts of electric shock. It was pretty funny hearing the people get shocked at first but once it got painful then it was more sad then funny.
I thought that the fact that patriotism and threat of life was not involved in the test may have made the results different than what the nazis where subjected to. The teacher did not consider his subject an enemy.
I agree with Shannon. I thought it was funny how they would not even question the guy. they just played along until they heard the guy being testing was in pain.
I think that these men were so obedient in part because of their lack of expertise in the subject. These men in lab coats were the experts, and for this reason the "teachers"did not want to disobey their authority.
I agree with Dana because as soon as they saw these men with lab coats on they assumed they had to follow every instruction they said even if they didnt like it. Its funny how some people are so obedient that they would follow someone else's instructions even if it was hurting someone else.
people useully obey something or some one due to the fear of punishmen.
Jordan DeArmond
I believe that fear of punishment, desire to please, and being a part of a group are all factors of obedience. People want to be liked, and like being awarded for doing what they were told. People don’t like to be wrong or looked down upon. There is a need to please others when you obey a command. I would think that the laughter you could have been to relieve the tension. I laugh when I’m feeling uncomfortable about a situation. I don’t think people were laughing out of cruelty, they just didn’t know what else to do with themselves. They might have felt the need to cut the tension they were feeling. Some people refused to do it, others were more willing to obey commends they were given. The two men in the beginning of the film refused to keep going after a while. I understand that it took them a while to refuse to keep going, but they still did realize it and stopped. The last guy, who then realized he was truly hurting the student yet kept on following his orders, was unfathomable to me. They were being pressured to continue the experiment, it was very important that he finished with the experiment. The first two guys decided to stop after they hear the guy complaining about his heart. The third guy started to get very nervous around that time as well. I think also the last guy was very obedient because he didn’t truly know what was going on. You see guys with white lab coats, and you figure “oh this guy must know what he’s talking about”; people don’t like to question those with a higher authority, with the fear they will get punished for it. I identified myself a little when they started laughing a little, I laugh at a lot of this when I feel very out of place. I grew up in a home where I am supposed to do everything I am told; however causing pain to another human being is unfathomable to me. I learned that some people are more than willing to hurt another person if they won’t get the blame for it; which is very sickening.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I just can't wrap my head around the fact that some guy is willing to deal out 450 volts of electric shock to some other guy even as he hears screams of pain. I am aware that he was under the impression that he would bear no responsibility, but dude, where is your conscience...? I agree with Natielli when she says "I believe that fear of punishment, desire to please, and being a part of a group are all factors of obedience."
I think desire to please the test-administrator was a huge factor in giving out the shocks. The fear of ruining the test and disappointing Milgram were all factors overriding the fact that electrocuting the guy was wrong. I even laughed when the guy gave out the 350 volts...not because a guy getting electrocuted is funny, but because it was ridiculous how much the teacher was willing to give out. He knew what he was doing was wrong and hurting another, but he did it nonetheless.
I agree with Kevin that the desire to please the administrator caused "teachers" to continue shocking the "learners." Although some of the men refused to continue with the experiment, there were men who decided to keep going once they were reassured by the administrator that they would not be held responsible for any damage that the shock could cause. The men who continued appeared to care about the men they were shocking, but once they learned that they would not be held responsible, the safety of the learner did not matter to them.
I think that people would laugh at the man receiving the shocks not because they think that it was funny, but because they were nervous. I think that in this case the laughter was expressing relief that someone else was "on the spot" because they would definitely not want to be in that position. Also, I think that it is horrible that any of the teachers would actually shock the student just because they were asked to do so. I was glad to see that some of the teachers stopped even when the leader of the experiment said they did not have a choice. What frustrated me the most about this was that one of the teachers would continue just as long as he was not responsible for the man being shocked.
i saw the later version of this experiment is psych and when they re did the experiment they included women and thought they would be more likely to stop because of their maternal instincts. but it was the opposite men were more likely to stop because women have a problem going against authority. which was surprising to me.
Obedience is the constant bombarding of words (orders, whether direct or implied) spoken to you until you have internalized the action that corresponds. Things become automatic when one is obedient. Ultimately it is a little bit of everything that goes into why one obeys- out of fear, desire to please, and a need to go along with a group so as one can associate themselves with someone else and not feel as thought they are alone in the universe. Yet here is the important thing to remember, nobody is ever alone in the universe, and therefore nobody should have to be a follower- or obedient of any group, out of peer pressure or something else- 100% of the time, especially when one feels as though something is not right. The laughter is either in spite of nervous laughter or not being able to connect to the situation (with respect to content matter/ the overall course). These are the only two reasons that I can really think of. I would have to say that in this case the laughter, though, according to many studies is due to someone else being "on the spot". The volunteers that were serious about no longer wishing to go on turned themselves completely around in the chair to confront the experimenter (man at the desk, out of sight of the camera). Others would say that they no longer wished to continue, but never confronted the issue, or once they were told that they were, in no way, responsible, they moved right along with the procedure. The pressure's that they faced was the fact that "the experiment requires that you continue, teacher" and that it was "absolutely essential" to continue the experiment. They stopped when they absolutely had enough, or when they were told to if they went beyond the "threshold" of being told that they would not be responsible. There were a couple of people with whom I could identify with, in that they recognized what was wrong when it was wrong and advocated for the end of the wrongdoing. I learned that obedience is instinctual and the corresponding ability to stop, reject, or question is different in everybody and may not necessarily mean that there is hope in the average person doing the right thing because it is the right thing, instead of being just another bystander.
Natielli brings up several quality points. One of them, in my opinion, is the one that she brings up about people of authority, or that look like someone who we assume, "oh they must know what they are doing". Excellent point.
I most thoroughly agree with Natielli and Lanciani; it was a combination of factors: desire to please, the participation in an "official" experiment, and the demeaning nature of the experimenter. However, while I was pretty shocked (ha. ha.) that many of the teachers gave their students all 450 volts, despite being dangerous, I was not surprised in the slightest that everyone shocked their student at least a few times. I would make the wager than every single one of you in the class, myself included, would shock another human being if told to do so in the same environment, at least until that person said to stop. For science. When I sign up for something, I plan to do it. I stay true to my word and honor. When honor involved Mother Germany, shit got out of hand fast.
Unfortunately, I missed the first day of watching the film. But from the ending I was able to notice how horrifyingly easy it is to lose all care for another human being as long as you are not "responsible" for what becomes of them. The last man they showed did exactly as he was told and as long as he was "obeying orders" seems to parallel the way the Nazi soldiers were trained to think. It was shocking and terrifying to see how easily the 'teachers' were able to cause a person so great of pain and eventually not even care for the persons well being as long as they are not "responsible".
I agree with Mankah it was very sad that the man went to 150 volts of shocking before he even considered that he had a choice to stop. It really shows how deep the brainwashing went so quickly.
I was not here for most of this film but from what I saw I was surprised how far the man had gone just to please the test instructor. He was willing to "inflict pain" on another person just to prevent his own punishment.
I was surprised at people readiness and willingness to shock another human, who they don't know, just for the reason that the professor told them to keep going, giving little reason other then you must keep going you don't have a choice. I was surprised at how willing everyone was to shock the victim, especially those who kept going even after he had begged them to stop, the people who just blindly obeyed without taking any time to think about what their doing and that they do have a choice shows just how obedient people can be. Just by saying you must do this you don't have a choice, the professor was able to make the people hurt others, seemingly against their own will.
i agree with brett, they just went along with the experiment until pain was shown to them through the speaker
In this case, obedience was caused from a desire to pleasr the instructor. The teachet didn't want to stop at first because they did not want to mess up the experiment. I agree with Brett because when they heard the pain and suffering that the learner was going through, they couldnt conflict the pain any more.
I agree with Nick Pham and also couldn't believe that the instructor would be willing to shock someone with 450 volts! Just because he didn't have the responsibility of the student, he continued to keep going with the experiment. It's shocking what people will do when they know that they are not help responsible for their actions. Also, I disagree with people that thought electrocuting the man was funny. Why would causing pain to another human be considered funny? It was actually sad and at times angered me when students laughed at the man's cry for help.
I think I was very unsettling that people were willing to give another person high voltage of electricity. I also agree with Natielli. I got very upset that the people kept on going and they knew they were hurting other people. It just made me very angry how people can hurt other people when obeying. There should be a line between hurting someone and obeying
i think obedience is mainly driven by the desire to please and to go along with the group, but as seen in the experiment some people draw a line between obedience and the right thing to do. Personally, i would have stopped right away when i heard the learner saying he didnt want to do it anymore. I wasnt surprised that some of the teachers continued to administer shocks even when the learner wanted to stop because i think sometimes people dont necessarily care about the other person, only themselves. That is why one of the participants continued after the scientist said he would take full responsibility.
i agree with kevin, disappointment also plays a role
This can be flight simulator version FS2002, FS2004 or the latest version of Flight simulator,
FSX. Now player can think that why they select
this game. This game by Hexacto is simple, straightforward, and fun.
Still, within each of these types of simulation games, certain games tend to rise to the top.
In general, it is something manufactured, to pretend to be (or simulate),
something else more valuable.
I believe that all three of the aspects identified play a huge role in encouraging obedience: fear of punishment, a desire to please, as well as a need to go along with the group. However, even though these things encourage obedience, they do not encourage being happy or okay with the actions a person is taking. For the longest time I have believed that people are naturally good. It is videos like these that test my beliefs on that. When a person is laughing when they are giving someone a 250 volt electrical shock, it makes you wonder if all people are naturally good at heart. Maybe they were just nervous, but it is hard to say. Overall I think that half of the people in society are leaders, and half are born followers. These followers are the ones who are likely to be obedient in situations such as this one.
I agree with Owen in that it would have been much different if patriotism was involved and the teacher viewed the student as a subject. I learned how powerful peer pressure really is for indivuals which i didnt realize before this film.
A lot of people who giving the shocks did not seem to be enjoying themselves. Especially when the heard the other person scream. I think the laughter came form people not realizing the pain that the other person may or may not have been on. They went on with it because they thought they had to. They were being pressured since they were going to be paid to do this experiment.
I agree with Alanna that is was crazy that someone could go up to 150 volts before they began to realize what they were actually doing.
I believe that without the pressure of knowing that people will be held responsible for their actions, they will do most anything they please. They also give into pressure from peers easily.
Post a Comment