You've just watched, "The Road to Treblinka" from the documentary,
NAZIS: A WARNING FROM HISTORY. It is said, “The reality of the history of the Nazis is far harder to explain than the popular conception of a nation led astray by Hitler. That the Nazi philosophy of obedience, seizure and struggle had appeal in the thirties and can still appeal to millions today.” Do you agree with that statement? In addition - please answer the question, "What did you learn that you did not know before watching the film?"
33 comments:
This documentary "The road to Trebinka puts into perspective, the nazi's use of a countries native population to kill their "enemies". The statment holds truth today, the weak, the desperate, thos without hope are vulnerable to manipulation with the promise of an improved life. We can even see it playing out in countries of the recent past. Somalia for example, in the 90's, famine was rampant due to the warlords stealing the red cross food shipments from the people. In less than a year, over 300,000 innocent men, women, and children starved to death, a genocide. The U.S, backed by the U.N intervened, but due to logistical problems, and protest to the occupation, the U.S had to withdraw. These warlords hard armies numbering in the 10's of thousands, ready and willing to murder their fellow countrymen, on the whim of their masters. Their starvation made them succeptable to this force. So yes, I beleive, as bad as it is, that even today, that the desperate and the weak of will, can be manipulated with false promises. I learned from this film that the Nazi's used a countries own people to murder and beat the jewish population.
I have to agree with James in that this statement does apply tofay. People who are weak and seeking power will do anything and be obedient, just as the Nazi's were during this time period. They followed all of their orders even if they were as terrible as murdering innocent jewish children. One thing I learned that I did not know before was about a lot of the massacres that took place where they just lined up women and children and killed them for no other reason than that they were told to do so.
I agree with both James and Sarah that, unfortunately, the philosophy or obedience, seizure, and struggle still has appeal today to some. Those who want power for their people, at any and all costs, will do anything to support their leaders and be obedient. In third world countries where people are poor and starving, they are much more likely to conform to obedience if they feel it can help give them a leg up over others and allow for them to be what they deem "successful" by following similar principles to those of the Nazis.
From this film I learned how the Nazi's not only portrayed the Jewish people as "trash" and unworthy people but they also made them into enemies in the minds of their followers. By saying if they do not do this to the Jewish people the Jewish people would do the same they were able to instill additional fear in their followers, allowing them to follow through with uncomprehensible orders. I also learned that killing by using gas came into play only due to the psychological effect that killing up close and personal had on the executioners.
I agree with the statement that millions of people could be obedient like that today. If someone gives a group of people someone or some group to blame for their problems then people will follow. If given hope to succeed and become better then people will do anything if they are desperate enough. So, one person with a plan can move millions and make them obedient to their every word. There are quite a few things I learned from this film. I didn’t realize that the process of killing was so hard for the Germans at first so they wanted a more humane way for the soldiers. They showed no care for the Jews.
I don’t think that the Nazi philosophy applies all the time, but in some scenarios when people are extremely desperate they can lose sight of morality and take over the obedience, seizure, and struggle philosophy. Like Molly Burke said, some people will go to great heights to get power for themselves and their people even if that means doing horrible criminal behavior.
While watching the film, I was taken back that some of the people who did the killings were volunteers. One of the men said that he got more vodka in exchange for the murders he was committing and only got twenty years in jail. On top of that he didn’t seem the least bit sorry or guilty for what he did in the past. This seems to be a pattern for many of those involved with the killings of the Holocaust and it makes me really confused on how easily they justified the murders in their heads since most of us couldn’t even dream of committing such disastrous corruptions.
i would have to agree with james that people who are weak, desperate, and without hope are vulnerable to manipulation with the promise of an improved life. i also agree with sarah that the nazi's followed whatever orders they were given even if they were mean, cruel, and just terrible. one thing that i learned from this film is that it was just gas chambers to kill jews or shooting them if they were trying to escape, death came into play whenever the nazi's felt like it,from simply just lining the jews and shooting them or they starved them to death
I think that this philosophy applies sometimes but not always. I think that this philosophy of obedience, seizure and struggle can apply in scenarios of desperation and greed. People will go to great lengths to fulfill these needs as well as to obtain power. One thing that I learned from this film was that the physiological effects on executers is what led the Nazis to use gas as the main method of liquidation.
Like Sara, I did not know that so many massacres took place during this time. So many people were tragically murdered for no good reason.
I was absent today
It is clear that for ethnic Germans in the thirties the Nazi Party looked to be very appealing, because as the economic situation in Germany got worse the more willing the general public was to gravitate to the political extremes (National Socialism and Communism). Then as the Nazi Party started to ignore the stipulations brought about by the treaty of Versailles the economic situation started to turn around, which benefited the Nazis greatly. The economy was bolstered by the fact that the the war industry including the air force, navy, and cavalry, and infantry required much manpower. That aspect of building up a nation from almost the brink of collapse probably does resonate with many struggling nations today, however, I do not believe that Nazi German ever is or ever will be used as an example due to the horrific war atrocities. Part of the reason why Nazi Germany was able to rebuild also due to extreme nationalism, which is a point where people are overly proud and protective of their nation. This is also why the holocaust was allowed to continue, because extreme nationalist wanted a scapegoat to blame, were willing to turn a blind eye, or built up this false notion that Jews were legitimately trying to sabotage Germany. Why I don't think this would be a possibility in the current era is, because in first world countries the movement would never receive support and in other countries NATO would almost definitely step in like in Libya as well as Syria (both current conflicts between an oppressive government and an opposition movement).
I believe that the Nazi philosophy applies to some situations but not a lot of them. The philosophy of obedience, seizure and struggle applies to those who want power in gluttony or desperation. It also applies to those who want power and would support their leaders with order and conformity. One thing I learned from the film was how the camp was set up and the movies visuals set into my mind how many Jews were really killed at these camps. I also learned that the Nazi’s psychological effects of killing innocent Jews played their mind to use gas against the Jews which killed numerous amounts of people.
I think that the philosophy of the Nazi party can still be applied in today’s world with different groups across the globe because people who can’t do things for themselves will join groups in order get the power that they want.
One thing that I learned and found interesting was the fact that the Nazis wanted to find a more humane way of killing the innocent people. Not for the people getting killed but for the people that were doing the killing because they were suffering psychologically from the brutality of the killing. I don’t think handling the dead bodies after they were killed more “humanely” after helped either.
I agree with Jason with that people that are struggling with their life will just join a group if they claim to have hope for the people that join, and one leader can claim to have hope just to get the majority of people behind them.
In response to James...
Do I believe that horrific atrocities against humanity will ever be commit in the future?
Yes I do, there is no way of stopping someone from going into a busy market in say Karachi and setting off a bomb, which would kill hundreds if not thousands.
However...
Do I think that another holocaust will ever happen again?
No, there is no way that with all the safety measures put in place like NATO and the Geneva convention would ever allow that to happen. And as bad as the genocides in Somalia and Rwanda were I would not consider them to be even near the same level as the Holocaust.
As a side note...
I'm quite impressed at the knowledge you have of world affairs. Plus two brownie points.
I agree with what most people have been saying about the quote. I think that the idea of obedience holds a lot of appeal to people in struggling nations. When Hitler came into power, the German people were struggling. The immediate success that his party had made people like him even more, and I think that that may have been part of the reason why people initially ignored what he was doing to the Jews. This is dangerous even today because it means that if a leader comes to power and enforces obedience, it may be accepted by people in that country.
From the film, I learned that some of the Nazis were able to kill people without a second thought simply because they truly believed the Jews were worthless. When one man was asked how he could kill a Jewish child, he seemed to not have any guilt. He said that he served his sentence and therefore did not need to punish himself. It was hard to listen to him say that he was able to just pull the trigger and watch the boy fall because it shows just how much the Nazi party was able to brainwash people into thinking that the Jews were nothing.
I also learned about Treblinka and that almost everyone (I think they said more than 99%) that went there was killed.
I do agree with this statement. The main reason I do is because even today in our world, there's symbols or societies which exhibit Nazism, with North Korea being one. Other countries since the Nazis fell in 1945 have also experienced times were citizen are required to give full obedience to the government, like the USSR and China in some ways today. Obviously, there's not a lot today that's publicized which compares to the horror of what the Nazis did, mainly with how many people they killed, but their main concepts are still prevalent in the present world.
What I learned was that killing Jews was deemed as the right and moral thing to do, in the German sense. When that group of Jews were beaten, a guy played the German national anthem over the dead bodies, basically proclaiming that they were proud of their work. Also, some of the people who killed the Jews who were interviewed didn't seem to show the least bit of remorse for what they had done, which was definitely appalling in a way.
I also agree with what Sarah said, in terms of how a country may decide to follow a leader when he or she comes into power and demands them to follow. Numbers play a big role here, as with more followers, the powerful you become.
Like James and Kurtis, I also believe that those who believe in the Nazi philosophy are weak minded individuals who are looking for power and are very insecure with themselves; they feel powerful but making other inferior to them. This philosophy appeals to some because it gives certain individuals a sense of being part of a group. What I learned from watching this film that I didn't know before was the size of bystanders and how they would use the Jews' pain to their benefit, like the man how got the coat and said he'd wear it to go dancing.
I agree with James and Molly, I think this philosophy still applies to today but not always. The philosophy of obedience, seizure and struggle is most often seen with those who want power for their people. Especially those in third world countries, where people are more likely to conform to obedience to if they feel it will make their lives better. I learned from this film that not only were the Nazis using a countries own people to murder the Jews but that German or non-Jews volunteers joined the Nazis party and killed the Jews out of pure curiosity of shooting a gun and they were given vodka to make them more brave in order to shoot. The Nazi’s went to low points to get what they wanted. Also Nazi’s wanted to make murders more humane for the executioners not for the Jews.
In "The Road to Treblinka", I learned that many thought that the Jews were selfish and linked to communism. Himler said “if we don’t do it to them, then they will do it to us”. They thought the Jews posed a threat and it was their justification for killing them, despite their innocence. For those who had no concrete purpose for shooting them, they simply shot them out of anger and protection of their people even though it didn’t quite resonate with them. It is very difficult to imagine nearly 99% of the people at Treblinka dying within three hours of arriving. I can’t fathom this happening today, however, in less severe examples it is often the case that bystanders don’t want to be the next victim so they go along with the instigator in order to stay protected. It gives them a sense of power and safety. This could have been what occurred in Nazi Germany.
I agree with Jamie and Sarah, that people at lower ranks of power who want to rise up become desperate, willing, and obedient to higher authority, similar to the Nazi's. With this came cruel and tragic violence.
I agree with Sarah that today it is still true that people yearning for power will do just about anything to gain it. People have always struggled to stand up to authority figures and are always quite willing to "go with the flow" and choose to take the easy path and not force themselves to ask what is right. The ideals that Nazis put forth became appealing to many people and began to sweep Germany up in what it was promised to do.
I learned that there were so many different stages to the extermination of the Jewish and other hated groups. The Nazis put serious time and effort to come up with a solution to the "Jewish question" and it took multiple relocations, rounding ups, and evacuations of them until they were finally sent to extermination camps.
I believe this statement can hold true, especially in conditions like poverty and an unstable economy where people feel like they need someone else to lead the way. Many people also just follow leaders solely because they feel like it is what they are supposed to do, and they do not want to cause a problem.
I agree with Tony on the psychological effects on the executers. It seems bizarre that these people would continue to do as they're told and kill all these people, given the effects it has on them.
Throughout the movie, it is clear how the Nazi's treat the jews as a piece of trash or dirt found on the ground. They not only were perceived as worthless, but the Nazi's made them into everyone's enemy, saying that if they did not kill the Jews now, the Jews would kill everyone else later.
I agree with Molly. I think that the Nazi's absolutely made the Jew's into their enemy just so that they could instill fear into their followers.
I think that the statement could go either way. I can see both sides to it and how someone could easily fall into agreeing with this statement and how easy it can be to simply go along with orders. On the other hand, thanks to courses like the one we are in right now, people have begun to recgonize their identities and own beliefs. This has helped them in situations where they could easily fall under the ease of simply going with what everyone else is doing. Instead, I think people are suprised by the upcoming generations and how much more educated we are on such topics and have been able to form our identities throughout the years that we can see the wrong in something like the Nazi philosophy.
I learned a lot that I did not know before watching the film. The biggest piece of information I have taken away was that the country Polan was even involved during this time period. I knew Germany was, but I never knew about surronding countries and how their people were effected. Sadly, Poland was one of those countries and through this video and the ones we have recently watched, I have learned more about the Jewish Poles and what they had to endure.
In response to Sarah Fontaine
I also learned more about the large massacers that occured. I never knew that they had created or thought of "gas chambers" to create a more humane way of killing for the Nazi members. I found that disgusting and disturbing to be honest.
After watching this film I learned a lot about the mind of a German citizen in todays world. The one thing that stuck out to me the most was the interview that was held with a friend of one of the biggest war criminals in the whole Nazi operation. When they were talking with her she talked about how nice of a guy he was and how he was always there for her. Then when they asked about his war crimes she said that when he was alive he tried to avoid talking about that and told her that she didn’t have to worry about what he was doing. This struck me and made me wonder how a person could just forget all about what happened. If a friend of mine was doing that I couldn’t stay their friend. I fell as though it would try and stand up to him even though he has much more power than me in the Nazi organization.
I agree with Sarah. Numbers play a huge role in power. If only a few people like a person then other people will not feel inclined to like them as well. However if a lot of people like a person they others will jump on the band wagon and feel like they have to like the government official to fit in and be liked by others.
Olivia Montgomery- I agree with this statement that this can happen today and that people will be obedient to the leader.. In the world today with some countries they still follow what the nazis would do. Like others said wen struggling they will follow what the leader says to do even if it is not right. I learned alot about the german people and how they think. It is shocking that they think they are doing nothing wrong, when they are killing millions of people.
Olivia Montgomery- I also agree with Sarah and David about the numbers, and how that has a powerful role. People will be more likely to follow if others do it, and they do not want to go against the government
I was not in class for this assignment
After watching "Road to Treblinka", I learned how so many people in GErmany are still affected by this today. What i did not know was that German locals made up about 80% of the killing squads because they were following German orders. I also learned that the experiments they did to test out the different methods they used to kill people were actually recorded. When the killings even started, they would be recorded on film.
I agree with McKayla with how the Nazi's treated the Jews like complete trash and how the Nazi's made the Jews seems worthless and that if they did not kill the Jews, the Jews would kill them.
The philosophy of the Nazi party can be applied to some instances in todays world. The satisfaction of being in power is just pure human nature. People will do whatever it takes to be in power, whether it is joining a group or doing it on their own. What I learned from the video is that from a general standpoint that they were treated horribly. Though each mivie shows sa new horror every time. I agree with Tony in what I had said before, anybody will do anything to have power.
I was abscent for this assigment.
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