Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience?
38 comments:
In the Milgrim experiment, I believe that the men were encouraged to shock the "student" because they wanted to please the man who was telling them what to do. I also believe that the "teachers" also enjoyed shocking the "student" because many of them laughed throughout the whole experiment. Even though the "teachers" began to hesitate as the voltage started to increase to around 400 volts, they continued to shock the "student". As people watch this, some people laugh because they think it is funny but I also think that some people laugh because it their natural human instinct when someone in inflicted with pain. Or maybe they are laughing at the awkwardness because they do not know how to react to the situation presented to them. As the men continued to shock the "students" they were told that the expirement HAD to continue and that they could not stop. They were afraid of the authoratative figure, even though they could have stopped if they wanted to. This is just like what happened during the Nazi time era.
I think the teachers in the Milgrim experiment administered what they believed to be real shocks to learners becuase they believed in authority. They were listening to the man in charge, the man they had volunteered for, but they should have questioned him instead of blindly following. Easier said than done but every time I watch the experiment, I will the teacher to put their foot down and refuse to harm another human being. I think the nervous laughter was a result of the pressure the teachers were feeling. They didn't know how to handle the situation and one man kept covering his mouth while a strange, strangled laughter came out. You could tell by his posture and his face that he was not at all enjoying the situation. That's why this experiment was deemed unethical, because it put the subjects under stress and some of them couldn't get over the fact that they had refused to stop shocking a presumably dead person to death.
I disagree with what Krystle said about the subjects laughter because I do not think they were enjoying the situation or finding it amusing in any way. A person who's having fun doing the shocking would be a sadist and they wouldn't have struggled with the concept of hurting someone else. Though they continued to administer shocks, subjects kept asking over and over if they could check on the man being shocked. If they thought the situation was amusing, they wouldn't have interacted with the authoritarian at all. They would have received their orders and gotten on with the "fun" instead of rubbing their faces, looking nervous, and pleading with the learner to answer the questions correctly.
I believe obedience is encouraged by fear of making a dilemma. This includes causing unnecessary stress that could lead to anger and then pain. By doing what people expect you can normally make someone happy. Obedience will most likely please the person you are obeying. If you feel powerless to an authority figure then how could you possibly fight them without hope of success. Milgram was easily accepted as the boss by the teachers. The volunteers probably trusted that Milgram's efforts were important.
The laughter was a nervous laughter. The thought with the laughter was normally something like "this is terrible" and you laugh it off. People make light of traumatic events so the events do not haunt them. This is common during war and laugher is very common in classrooms.
The volunteers looked to the experimenter. Most were surprised by the amount of pain and looked to person in charge with confusion on what to do. One man tried to stress that he should check on the learner before he continues. The experimenter then stresses that the experiment must continue as if the experiment was more important than a life. The teachers decided on whether to continue by consulting authority even if the authority gave the same answer. The pressure of responsibility of a life was placed on them. In this case that pressure was lifted by one sentence. I can identify with the volunteers as I would have went to the highest authority once I noticed a problem. Unfortunately in this case that solution would not be helpful.
I agree with Lyndsie, the learners were not laughing at the misfortune of the people they administered pain to but laughing because they had no other reaction to "wow, I just caused severe harm to someone." I think the learners were trying to relive the massive amounts of tension in the room and wanted the experiment over-with. It's a shame the first way they thought of doing that was by obeying to the final shock.
I think obedience is mostly encouraged by people lacking knowledge and common sense. People are more likely to follow the instructions of a guy in a lab coat just because he seems like he knows more than they do about a specific topic. I also think they fear punishment of not following instructions asked of them. As for the laughter, I think the teachers in the experiment were very uncomfortable and nervous about being in the given situations so they expressed these emotions through laughter. I don’t think they enjoyed causing “harm” to the learner. They had a lot of pressure placed on them to continue the experiment even though they were reluctant about it. The experimenter kept telling them that the experiment required that they continue and they had to keep reassuring the teacher that they held no responsibility for what happened to the learner. I thought it was really interesting to see how as soon as the teacher knew he wasn’t responsible for any damage, he continued with the experiment completely ignoring the well-being of the learner. It wasn’t until the experimenter said to stop that most teachers ended the shocks.
I agree with Lyndsie because the teachers should've asked more questions instead of just listening to the guy in the lab coat. People are fooled way too easily into doing things that are completely immoral and wrong.
I think that it is both the need to please and go along with the group that causes obedience. I think this because when people are told to do something in a convincing way they usually do it. Like that one guy who was reluctant to keep going, but the main guy told him he would be the one blamed for the student’s pain. This reassurance helped the guy continue what he was doing. Also, the fact that most people like to go with the group and not speak up for themselves or others, causes obedience to the group leader. I think the reason some people laughed at this is because it is a natural reflex when something shocking or surprising is happening. They are laughing not because they think it’s funny, but because they don’t know what to do in awkward situations. All the volunteers administered the shocks in a different way; some laughed, some felt bad and some just did it like it was no big deal. What I don’t get is why these people would volunteer without knowing what they are getting into.
While watching the Milgram experiment,I think that the reason the "teachers" were so obedient, was because they felt obligated to continue with the experiment even if they felt uncomfortable, because they had signed up for it. I also think that a major factor in why they continued shocking the "learners" was that they were told that they were not responsible for anything that happened to the learner. Once they knew that no matter what happened they would not be blamed, it seemed like it was easier for them to shock the learner. I think that some of the teachers began laughing when they heard the learners screamafter getting shocked not only because they did feel uncomfortable in front of the scientist, but also because laughing is a natural human reaction as we discussed in class today, and it isn't necessarily because they do think it's funny. However, one of the teachers did not try to stop the experiment until he thought that something bad had happened to the learner, and he had gone all the way to 455 volts of electricity. I don't understand how they could willingly and knowingly inflict pain on another person.
I think the reason that the teachers in the milgram experiment were so obedient is that they were being told that would not be held responsible for the learners. This let them remove themselves from the blame of the situation even though they were the ones physically delivering the shocks to the patients. Another reason would be that the experimenters repeatedly said it was necessary that the teachers continue, effectively placing more value on the experiment than on the learners life.
I was not here this day.
I think that the people generally obeyed the scientists' order because of a desire to please. I think that some people laughed because they were nervous and they needed to relieve tension. The volunteers didn't generally like to hear the student scream in pain, even if they did continue to administer the shocks. They decided to stop by either the scientist telling them to stop or refusing to go on due to the fact that the student sounded like he was getting hurt.
I think the reason for the obedience is lack of knowledge and a certain obligation to compete the experiment. Watching the film some of the teachers where laughing at the screams of the learner. I think they did this because they were a little nervous but also because it is a natural human instinct. I could not connect with any of the teaches part acting in the experiment.
I agree with Sean. One reason that they were so obedient is that they were told that they would not be responsible for any harm done.
I think that there is a lot that encourages obedience, everything that was listed-a fear of punishment, desire to please, need to belong, and belief in authority-in addition to the way our society is run, or any society for that matter. For the people up top, it is easier to have an obedient country of people following them than a bunch of free thinkers, so obedience is embedded into the culture and encouraged, looked at fondly by the authority figures who gain from it. I laughed when watching the film, and I think it had to be because the leaner was screaming and the teacher just kept on going, and it was the first time I realized that each of the shouts sounded the same each time, and that there was nobody actually getting shocked at the other end. Then I found it amusing to watch as the man continuously obeyed and kept shocking the man in the other room, so he thought, but he was really just making himself look like a fool for following along with the experiment, not protesting, and not caring when the experimenter said that all the blame was on him. I think that for the teachers, they were laughing because, well one, a few probably just plain thought it was funny that they were shocking people, and another is because they were relieved that they were the one picked to be behind the shocker instead of the other volunteer, and that they didn’t have to remember the words on the paper. The volunteers were a little reluctant at times to administer the shocks, but after the experimenter said that he held all the blame, they minded less and less and just continued to follow orders and keep up with the experiment. The experimenter placed a lot of pressure on them the entire time, saying that the experiment required that he keep going, saying that the shocks may be painful but not dangerous, and hearing the man stop shouting or saying anything in the other room. Some decided to stop, but some kept going all the way to the top and kept giving 450 volts. I definitely would not have carried out the experiment, after hearing the man shouting in the other room like the volunteer we watched did, especially after he stopped responding. I would have walked out of the building right there and called the police to investigate what they were doing; if I thought that they had shocked a man with a heart condition to death I would not have let them get away with it.
I think that the men chosen to be the teachers continued the experiment because they may have felt like they wouldn’t be paid at the end if they didn’t finish it. I also think that they continued to administer the shocks because the guy in the lab coat said he takes all the blame if someone gets hurt. This probably took a lot of pressure off of the teachers. That’s why I think a lot of the people went all the way to 450 volts. When some of the teachers laughed during the experiment, I think that they did so because they didn’t know how else to react to someone being physically hurt. I also think that someone should have stood up and walked out because they were being told what to do by someone who they don’t even know.
I think obedience comes from the fear of being punished. I'm sure we can all remember when we were younger our parents saying, "do this or you're going in time out!" Ever since I can remember, my parents have held strict standards that came with their fair amount of punishments if I disobeyed them. The fact that I knew I would be punished if I did not obey my parents usually led me to obey them, so I have grown up with the idea that obedience comes from the fear of being punished. This does not only happen with people. I'm sure many of you have dogs, and many of you have trained them. An example that relates perfectly to the Milgram film is an electric fence. If a dog crosses it, (disobeying), it receives a shock (punishment.) So not only do humans learn to obey through enforced punishment, but other things do too, like dogs. I did not notice anyone laughing in the classroom as we watched the film today. However, when I saw the man laughing in the film, my first reaction was that it was disrespectful. Then once I thought about it more, I realized that the laughter is probably an unconscious way of the man's body sheilding away the reality of what he's actually doing to the "student."
I agree with Ethan. I really like how you thought more into what you would do AFTER you stopped shocking the man. I just thought about whether or not I would do it, but I like how you were able to see that it was so wrong of them to do such a thing that you would even call the police.
I wasn't present for this video.
I think that there are many reasons for obedience. I think that many people are too passive. There are some people in the world that don't like confrontation. These people can't say no to authority so they end up doing what the authority wants. I also think that if someone gets another person to do a small task for them, they can gradually increase the task to make the person do bigger things.
I agree with Jacquie. I think that obedience comes from the fear of being punished. I can relate to this because when I was younger and my parents said, "do this or you're going in time out", I would always stop in fear of being punished.
I think that it’s a little bit of all of these reasons of what encourages obedience. I think that fear of punishment definitely has reasons behind it because, for example in a frat, people will do pretty much whatever to join the group and if they went against an order, they would get in trouble. Or even in military terms, one would be punished if they didn’t follow orders. Or maybe one would follow orders just to please whoever is in charge, such as a boss. Or maybe since everybody (well mostly everybody) respects teachers, everybody in the group goes along with it. I think that it depends on the situation and the person as well. But in the experiment, I don’t understand why people followed orders when they knew it was wrong. I just think it’s ridiculous how easy people follow instructions without trusting their instincts.
I agree with Erik that it may have taken some pressure off of the teachers that the scientist said that he would take the blame if the guy got hurt. The teacher still looked uncomfortable, but I feel like it helped him continue the experiment.
In this experiment, I believe the teachers were encouraged to shock the student because even if the teacher was to do damage to the student through the shockings, all the responsibility was on the designer of the experiment. During the lower voltages the teachers werent very concerned about the student but as the voltage increased and the student began showing pain the teacher questioned continueing but because they werent responsible they believed it wouldnt matter to go on.
I agree with Mike that too many people are afaid of confrontation and to avoid it they go along with anything a higher authority says to them.
I think that obedience can be caused by a desire to follow authority or avoid punishment, but in this case it was created mostly by the pushing of responsibility onto another party. When the people were afraid of harming the learners and wanted to stop, as soon as they were told they were not responsible, they proceeded. This shows how people will obey more readily when they are not at risk of being responsible of their actionsI think that obedience can be caused by a desire to follow authority or avoid punishment, but in this case it was created mostly by the pushing of responsibility onto another party. When the people were afraid of harming the learners and wanted to stop, as soon as they were told they were not responsible, they proceeded. This shows how people will obey more readily when they are not at risk of being responsible of their actions. I think that the laughter was caused by the nervousness and anxiety of the teachers who were put in such a difficult position. I know I always laugh in tough situations, and I think they are dealing with it the same way.
I agree with mike that the type of person that someone is will affect their level of obedience and that more passive people are more likely to follow instructions that may be against their beliefs. Some of the people did seem to obey the instructions in order to avoid confrontation and that may just be the nature of most people. People may just have wanted to put their head down and do what they were told because it was easier for themselves.
I thought that the Milgram experiment could have been a good test if the shocks were not that painful. The fact that most teachers made it to 450 volt shocks shows that some people will do anything for money weather its hurting someone else or not. The teachers had to obey the experimenter but i feel that if they also had a shocker attached to them if they disobeyed they would be shocked too because they were not hurt for hurtig the learner they were only told to obey with no punishments, so they were not affected
I think that the teacher knowingly shocked the learner because of the responsibility of the results of the expiriment that were taken by the scientist. Once the scientist confined that he would be left responsible, the teacher was ok with applying what he thought was large amounts of electricity to a man who wasn't even answering. The laughter was probable just out of disbelief that the expiriment was so outrageous. I don't think it was happy laughter I think it was just an uncomfortable situation and it was just a natural response for the teacher.
I agree with John I think the fact that the men were getting paid made them a little more likely to want to complete the expiriment.
I agree with Jacquie how obediance come from fear of punishment because when I was growing up i also had to do what my parents told me or I faced a punishment. It shows that most kids grew up like this and that most parents got the idea that they can get someone to do something for them if they add in concequences for not doing it
I think the teachers where acting to make the man who was running the experiment happy. After a while the began to revolt but the man would simply shut them down and thell them to continue,alot of people arent use to thisso they just do what they are told. Also he took responsibility for what happened to the man, so if he got hurt then it would not be the teachers fault. The laughing came from their human reaction to when someone yells whether its of pain or whether its because they got scared. I too did laugh laugh ecause the man was yelling in a way that seemed funny to me. But after they boltages went up i noticed the change from being shocked to feeling real pain so it was no longer funny. The athoraty figure told them they had to do something and so they did, like if my boss told me to do something i wouldnt regularly do i would do it. I was woundering if they got paid for woulentreeing or not?
I think that the reason some peopl went along with the experiment was because of the authority, I think that it's human nature to be obidient to higher authority, and fear of that authority. I think that the people that were Shocking the other might might have been laughing out of nervousness, they were sure what to do in the position they were in.
I agree with conor when he says that the teacher laughed because it was an uncomfortable situation and his naturAl reaction.
I agree with John that the Milgrim experiment showed that those people would do anything for money even if that means hurting another human.
People would do anything for money.
In the Milgrim experiment the people became those willing to inflict what they believed to be harm on others based on the fact that they would face no responsibility for their actions. This like Krystle A. suggests is very much what was going on with the Nazi's and their followers during the 1930's and 40's. And it also made for a very interesting experiment.
In the Milgrim experiment the people became those willing to inflict what they believed to be
harm on others based on the fact that they would face no responsibility for their actions.
This like Krystle A. suggests is very much what was going on with the Nazi's and their
followers during the 1930's and 40's. And it also made for a very interesting experiment.
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