Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? Post your reflective comment by the end of the week.
22 comments:
I think authority is the factor that encourages obedience the most. If someone knows that the person overseeing their actions has more power than them (and possibly has control over whether they're fired or something), it's likely that they will want to stay on the good side of the person in power. With that comes the desire to please and the fear of punishment if anything is done incorrectly.
I think it's likely that there was laughter because people were relieved. They didn't want to be the one who was forced to electrocute the "learner" in the other room, so there might have been nervous laughter.
The volunteers' reactions ranged from laughter to tears. Some pulled the switches quickly, with a straight face, while others' discomfort with the situation was visible; they didn't realize they would be hurting others. Some protested almost as soon as they heard the "learner" in pain, but some (with the persistence of Milgram) kept on going.
One man said, "I don't want to be responsible for what happens to him." Milgram answered, "you won't; I will be," and the man continued to administer the shocks. Most stopped after they heard the man screaming from the pain or become quiet.
I couldn't comprehend how cruel some people were, administering the electrical shocks because someone told them to. They had a choice to get out of it, but they didn't. Not right away at least for some of them. If I was them, I'd refuse to do it.
The milgram experiment was one of the most effetive experiments of all time in my opinion. It shows that by wearing a uniform such as a lab coat that represents power you can influence peoples decisions even if they know it is wrong. These peoople knew that shocking the student was wrong but they continued anyways because an authoritative figure was there pushing them. I agree that most people would do as the Nazis did if they were given the power, but i also believe that there are humans who would not coninue with what the nazis did because it was oon a much larger scale.
I think authority and the need to fit in is the source of obedience. Just like Anna said, people are afraid of the ones with higher authority. They follow their orders so that they can fit in in the society and get along with their lives. Also they do not want the punishment that follows not following orders. Fear is really the source of obedience.
I think that the students laughed because they knew it was just an experiment. The setting of Yale University ensured the students that the scientists knew what they were doing and if he was actually being shocked, it was only pain for a slight moment and it was funny to hear the reactions.
I identified with the man that refused to continue. They all attempted to as high of a voltage as they could, but at a certain moment they couldn't do anymore. Authority kept pushing them to do more and sometimes they would listen, but most of the time they could not finish the line of voltages. Many of them relieved themselves with tears and or laughter to make the situation easier for themselves.
I personally believe that obiedence stems from a fear of punishment. In order to save their own butts from trouble, people seem to be willing to throw someone else "under the bus." Obedience comes from people saying..."I'd rather be in this position than theirs, so I'll do whatever to maintain my own well-being" kind of thing.
The laughter is a natural reaction of uneasiness. When you are doing something that you are uncomfortable with and you seem not to have an option, your mind is confused as to why your body is doing something disagreeable. The laughter is an emotion of confusion, as well.
I know that I would not go on with the experiment when I realized the stress the "learner" was being put under. If I were not threatened to continue with more serious consequences than the scientists not being able to continue their experiment, I would leave. No experiment where another human being is being harmed can be translated into the real world. I believe I would have maintained obedience until my morals were interfered with, by means of harming other individuals.
I believe obedience come from a belief in authority. Those who tend to go against what they are told to do don’t respect the person telling them what to do because they do not see a reason why that person has authority over them. Those who do believe in authority tend to go along with what they are told no matter what. In the video the experimenter was the authority. These people saw his as authority and they had a sense of confidence in what he was telling them. Even though their instincts told him the person was no okay they were often easily reassured that the shocks were harmless, and they ultimately believed and went with the authority. I think when people watched this film and laughed if was because they weren’t sure what else to do. They saw people doing something more or less cruel and nervous laughter was the only response because no other response seemed appropriate and laughing as stated above lightens tension. The volunteers all went along with the experiment at first even though they themselves felt the shock. Some laughed at first while others just went through the experiment. When the tester asked to be done every person reacted. Some completely refused to go on while others were simply told they had to continued, and they complied. I can’t say I identified directly with any of the volunteers, but I certainly do understand the idea of complying with authority without questioning it. It happened in our class. Mr.Gallagher hold us we would all do the same thing as the Nazi’s and only Pat and Shady challenged it. I know for me my thoughts were well I’m sure he has a reason he said that and he knows something I don’t. At the same time I did want to say something and challenge that statement, but my pervious stated thoughts are what ultimately controlled my actions.
I also agree with Meredith that people can be obedient out of fear. They do what they say to keep themselves out off trouble so they are not in the situation of the person that is in trouble.
I do think that obedience stems from authority. Everyone always takes orders from those abpve them. Especially when there is some type of consequence involved, anyone will default to listening to the man in charge. Anyone will give in to that person in charge for fear of a punishment, so I agree with Meredith.
I think that there was frequent laughter because it was an automatic reactionfor that person to have. I think it showed that they were either nervous or uncomfortable with the situation or both. Some people can't help but laughing when they are nervous.
When we were watching the film, it was hard to understand completely why they were going into danger levels, besides being forced by authority. If I was in their position I probably would have don the same thing. I would have felt bad but not have been able to try to withdraw from the experiment like one man in particular did, he got up and almost walked out at one time.
I think there are many reasons people strive to be obedient. For example, people tend to follow orders and blend in so they are not questioned or seen as going against authority. People try to blend in order to protect themselves due to a fear of punishment.
I agree with the statement that students laughed out of embarrassment and to relieve tension. I don’t think anyone found the man in pain funny, it was more of just laughing out of confusion and embarrassment.
During the experiment when the “teacher” stopped and momentarily refused to go on but then resumed to give shocks I think they were concerned for the man’s health but not as concerned as they where for themselves. When they where told the experiment must go on that was enough for them to keep going because they were obedient and trying to save themselves from punishment.
I agree with what Ana said about laughing out of being relieved that it wasn’t them in the box getting the shocks, it reflects why people tend to be obedient.
I think authority encourages obedience. In the film it shows how Milgram continued to tell one of the men to continue the experiment, which resulted in him obeying the order. The man continued the experiment because he felt as if he had to listen to the figure of authority.
I think the laughter showed that the people who were part of the experiment were nervous about what they were doing.
In the film some of the volunteers cried, laughed, or did nothing. Some of the volunteers flicked the switches with ease and did not think about hurting the others until the amount of volts increase. Others were timid about flicking the switches because they realized that they could be hurting the person on the other side. The pressure the volunteers began to feel was for the authority figure telling them to continue with the procedure long with the concern towards the person being shocked when he did not respond to the questions. Some of the volunteers decided to stop when the person being shocked began to scream where others continued until they were told to.
I agree with Anna that authority is the factor that encourages obedience the most because it shows how easily they can boss someone around in order to do what they want.
I think what encourages obedience is both the fear of punishment and desire to be a part of a group. I believe people do what they are told out of fear especially against an authority figure. People may also feel encouraged to be obedient because they want to feel part of something.
In this case, I think that the people in the video laughed to relieve tension. It was not that anything was necessarily fun, more because it was a stressful situation and they didnt know how they should react. The volunteers reactions all seemed to be similar. Many of them laughed as well as showing great stress as well as sympathy. Many spoke up about not wanting to continue with the experiment yet many did in fact continue. Some volunteers stopped when they heard how badly the person being experimented on wanted the experiment to stop. All through out the movie I was shocked at how the volunteers were reacting. I was slightly disappointed with how few people refused to do the experiment and how many kept going until 300 or even 400 volts. This unfortunately showed how easily some individuals can be influenced by others to be obedient.
I agree with Shady in the fact that obedience is a source of fear, mostly fear of punishment. Also I believe that the want to fit in is also a factor because if other follow people will conform.
I believe that the laughter came from the teachers nervousness. When people are nervous laughter is sometimes a way to hide that emotion. Also it could have been because they were relieved to not be in the position of the learner and on the other side of the shocks.
I would identify with the first man who refused to continue once he realized that the man was in serious pain. I could never continue to punish an innocent person for no reason it goes against all of my morals. Even though the authority was telling them to continue no one was going to force them to keep going with the experiment. For 4.50 and hour it wasnt worth it.
The higher authority is a main factor that encourages obedience along with the fear of that higher authority. This was shown in the experiment by some of the teachers towards the experimentor. Many of the teachers in my mind acted a certain way due to the fear of punishment in the mind. Becasue of this higher authority the teachers acted as if they would be punished from not following directions. In my mind this was a very informative experiment and goes to show that it is possible that humans will follow instructions based on certain criteria no matter the test. I think that during the test there was a lot of nervous laughter from the tester once they knew they were going to be inflicting pain on the leaner. In order to make the situation easier for some tears were shed almost as if they were releived in a way.Pverall I thought that the film portrayed alot about the human mind in a certain situation.
I agree with what Meredith said, and I like the way she phrased it. People who fear punishment usually do "throw others under the bus" to allow themselves to get off easily.
I believe that the power and the authority is what encourages obediance. fear of punishment, desire to please, and a need to go along with the group are all factors that go into why a person is obediant.
I believe that the laughter was a normal reaction to most of the people. laughing while the people were getting shocked was an act of nervousness.
many pressures were placed on the "teacher" or the person that was administering the shocks. they had to pick between disobeying the administrator or to shock the victim. this placed much stress on the teacher because it was a lose-lose situation.
I think that there are a few factors that influence obedience. Those factors are trust, responsibility and superiority. People trust that authoritative figures know what is best and will also accept responsibility for their actions if they are incorrect. Obedience is also a combination of the three questions asked. Sometimes it is a desire to please and belief in authority, but I think most times it is fear of punishment. In society today, most people abide by the laws because of the punishments of neglecting to do so.
I believe I was guilty of some of the laughter throughout the film. As with the volunteers, my laughter was an involuntary response. As I watched the film, I couldn't help but laugh at the ridiculousness of what was being asked of these subjects and how willing they were to oblige. I anxiously awaited every decision they made and laughed to relieve the tension. I think that most volunteers felt that they must laugh to refrain from exposing the guilt they felt.
The volunteers were all notably bothered as they administered the shocks. Some asked to stop while others began to demand the termination of the experiment. When they asked to discontinue the experiment, they were ordered three times to continue conducting the shocks. If after those three commands they still wished to stop, they were allowed to. Many decided to stop when their conscious could no longer take harming another human. I identified most with the man who stopped at about 115 volts. I understand the pressures put on the volunteers but feel that I would be forced to stop when the man across the wall begged me to.
People are trained to obey authority from the the time they are able to communicate. Parents need them to obey, teachers need them to obey, police need them to obey ect. For most people it becomes almost instinctive to obey authority. I think people laughed as a natural reaction to hide discomfort.
I identified with the discomfort of all of them, as well as the morality of the one who flat-out refused after learner demanded to be free.
I disagree with the people that said people laughed out of relief. I think it's overly misanthropic to believe that the people in the film were actually happy that they were causing pain instead of receiving it.
I believe that what encourages obedience is fear and also the need to please. Whether it’s a group of people or just one person, people are always looking to please another for joy or fear. This makes people want to listen to what they say and follow their command whether they really want to or not. I believe that some people laughed because it was something we were watching and not actually a part of, whereas if we were in the video we would not find it funny. The experimenters did not want to continue shocking people but did not actually stop because of what they were being told. I would like to say that I would have stopped, but as the movie shows this is not always true.
The results of this experiment were very scary and telling of the dark side of human nature. The people who went all the way to 450 weren't people who were sadistic at all. They just didn't have the guts to stand up to the authority figure in the scenario Milgim set up. The power that the scientist made the subject obey their authority and continue the experiment beyond the point where they wanted to stop.
I think the laughter was just the people being nervous. They didn't know how to react to the situation so they reacted in that way. I don't think it was a sign of them being satists.
I think everyone would like to believe that they wouldn't continue the experiment including myself, but you never know. I think the people who stopped did something amazing and the people who didn't were weak and gave into the idea that the experiment had to continue.
The one person I couldn't associate with at all and felt angry towards was the guy who went to 450 and back down the board. He talking about responsibility and he didn't want to be held accountable for the death of the other participant. He continued because he was assured that he wouldn't be responsible, I found that really disturbing.
In the experiment they tried diffrent tactics, like removbing the instructor of the experiment. Wehn he was more present the teacher was more obiediant to continue i think that preasure and fear encouraged them to keep going. They did not want to "ruin the experiment" as the instuctor said when they did not want to continue. It seemed like they felt they where letting him down.
I have seen people who start to giggle every time they are tyalked to by authority. I think people experiance this as a nervouse way to not feel embarassed. When i have seen people laugh when they are getting yelled at i think it is useally to relieve tension because they are overwhelmed with fear. I also think that is what happend in this case they where so worried they didnt know what other way to react.
Although i cannt see myselfrelating to the man who did finish the testing, i could relate to when he stared crying. I felt how nervouse he was and that he felt he didnt have a choice. When he started to cry i could relate to the feeling of your consouse telling you not to do something and feeling awful about it, but i dont agree with him going throuigh the whole test.
I agree with shady that i would not be able to this. i feel people are more aware these days about how wrong that would be to do.
I believe that one could argue that all of those excuses may encourage obedience. In this specific case, I would argue that it was mainly the belief in authority that encouraged the obedience. Most of the time, throughout the experiments the "teachers" would ask the instructor if they took full responsibility for the "learner," and would not continue until they said yes because they did not want to get in trouble. I agree with Anna in that, the laughter from the students was probably nervous laughter because they were grateful they were not the ones having to "shock" someone in an experiment. The volunteers had some nervous laughter at the beginning, but that quickly ended when they heard the voice say they wanted to discontinue the experiment immediately. At that point most of the people turned and looked to the instructor to see his reactions and then usually continued with the experiment for a while surprisingly. It was alarming to see how well people follow orders no matter what they might be.
I think that fear is what encourages obedience. People tend to do what one commands them if the person commanding them is of high authority. It shows how people will do what they are told to because of the fear of what will happen if they dont.
I agree with Shane on how people will listen to higher authorities even if what they are doing is completely wrong. I think that the laughter is just a normal reaction for a person. One guy was laughing because he felt like he had all the power over the man he was shocking. I think that everyone would have a different reaction to this, some would keep going and some would stop because everyone is different and has their own opinions.
i believe that whenever an individual is given orders, and instructed on what to do, it is much more enticing for that individual to obbey. people dont like making decisions, so it is easiest if they just follow orders.
i also agree with anna and believe authority is a very large factor for obeidence, people follow rules.
I was absent for this class.
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