Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? Post your reflective comment by the end of the weekend and be sure to make a comment to another student’s post.
25 comments:
this video was very interesting its crazy how the people where starved to death and when the guys where examining the other men to see how many they would get wrong most of them where wrong and they got more worried everytime they would here the person scream louder they'd get worried and how they laughed without noticing they where causing pain
I saw this video before and it really does help me understand more of the nazi's view when it came to hurting the jews. However despite that it shocked me and does everytime when i watched the last man who went go up to highest amount of voltage compared to the others. It makes me realize that some people just stand their own ground for what they believe. Others only don't want to take responsibility and just follows others around them.
I was extremely umcomfortable watching this movie today. I did not realize at first that the learner was not being shocked, but once I did I the tension I felt did not stop. I cringed every time the man screamed. I think that the laughter was more a showing of the nerves they frelt, that I knew I felt verse an enjoyment in hurting the people. I think that no person should have continued past about one hundred volts when the screaming got louder and asked it to stop. no matter what the reason, no one should cause that much pain to another human being.
Having seen this film before in psychology class, I knew what I was going to get going in, however it was not until knowing the context of the experiment in relation to the Holocaust, that I realized the significance of the experiment. Stanley Milgram's exploration into the human psyche and how far one is willing to go when being told what to do holds great relevance to the Holocaust, and already knowing the contents of the video, viewing it from a different perspective after gaining this knowledge was very interesting.
I think that fear of punishment, a desire to please, and a need to go along with the group all play a part in encouraging obedience. I don’t think the people were laughing because it was funny I think it was a nervous laugh. Laughs because it was such an uncomfortable situation they didn’t really know what to do. I have experienced that same laugh when one of my sisters have gotten hurt at first a laugh not because its funny because I am kind of panicked and nervous and don’t know what to do. I think that in this case the laughter was a result of relief they weren’t the person being shocked and getting the answers wrong. I also think the laughter had a little bit to do with embarrassment for the other person who was yelling in pain. Most volunteers where nervous and uneasy when administering the shock they tried to make it quick. Most people objected in some way when the learner asked to stop. If the person felt directly responsible they usually refused to go on if the person was sure that the responsibility was not theirs they were more willing to go on with the shocks.
Haemin, I agree that this video made me understand a little bit more how much a horrible thing could happen. It troubles me that so many people are willing to listen to authorities when they know how wrong something is. Just because the responsibility is going to be put on someone else doesn’t make it okay to do.
i was really disturbed by the clips we saw of the milgrim experiment when it was first preformed and when it was preformed more recently. i could not understand how people could keep going with it even after hearing the other person scream ouch. the people that exhibit no emotion at all made me angry. a lot of the "teachers" kept asking who was responsible if anything happened. that really irritated me. they should not have even particpated in something that could lead to something happening. even if they are not held responsible for it, would they not feel anything for what they have done? they are the ones pressing on the shock button.
the story that expecially disturbed me and made me uneasy was the real life example McDonalds. all i could say to the manager and her husband was really? you are that naive to think that a police officer would say that? if i was in the managers position i would have told the police to actually come to the scene. it is a crime and he needs to report it, in person not over the phone. it is the police's job not mine to investigate. therefore not letting the situation get to how far it did. if i was the victim i would have said no to stripping down, i would have rather been fired than strippind down and been sexually taken advantage of.
the problem with both the manager and the victim was that neither of them spoke up and just obeyed what the authoritive figure told them to do. obviously a theme to be learned from these clips. i will obey and give respect to those that are more in charge, however, when it contradicts my morals, i no longer want to be a part of anything they tell me to do.
i think that the reason obidiance is so powerful is because it must be some anchient instinkt to be like everyone in the bigest group like for example fish and birds stay in groupes of there own kind to protect themselves. so our need to obey is just our instinks trying to make us work as one group. i also think that the reason the kids in class that laughed because it helps them try to bring themslves into a sense of protection against that kind of stuff sicologicaly. those people who did a part in the experiment all reacted mostly in some form of surprise in outward or internal form then depending on how surprised they were helped make that final decision of weather to continue or not to continue. but i do understand it in the same whay as sara ortiz on how this freaked many people out i got shocked once and can understand how this can realy scare/ hurt people.
I think obedience is an innate human quality. We have a desire to be ruled, or at least told what to do. I think that the laughter seen in the film wasn’t sadistic laughter at the expense of the “learner,” I think it was more awkward laughter: a relief of tension in a high-stress situation. All of the “teachers” seemed hesitant about giving the shocks when they heard the man scream out in pain. They often looked to the authority figure to give them their next instruction. They were pressured, albeit lightly to finish the fake experiment the entire time. This clearly put people into a moral dilemma as to whether they should do as they were told, or follow their moral conscience. They either decided to stop on their own as they could not bear to be the bringer of pain for the “learner,” or just put their morals aside and listened fully to the authority figure. Personally, I agree with Madison that a person’s morals should take over when they hear another person cry out, but apparently, according to the experiment, we are a minority.
I truly think that there are two main factors that influence obedience: peer pressure and personality or background. "Mob mentality" is a proven phenomenon that allows for individuals to act in ways, which they say are contrary to their beliefs or the way that they act when alone, on the basis that the anonymity or reassurance from peers or from the crowd convinces people to "go along." However, I also think that people who have weak personalities, or who have become accustomed to following or putting up with authority are also susceptible to following orders. The latter can include people who are used to following authority at their jobs, such as an extreme case of someone who labors under directions from a boss in the system that some factories were under in the ninteen fifties, or people who work in labs or other settings where they take instruction from someone they believe to be intelligent and responsible. From the results of the experiment, I don't think that fear of punishment inhibited the participants, since there was no defined punishment, but rather the fear of standing up to another person and the willingness to fight or struggle somewhat for your beliefs. Although some may have truly been in humor, I think the laughter in class had both the justification of tension relief as well as relief that they themselves where not in the position of the teacher. I agree with Madison that it was alarming when people continued raising the voltage; however, what I found to be most alarming was how many more people were unaffected by the screams of the learner and only meekly contested the commands of the authority in the modern experiment as opposed to the original experiment, because I think it shows an alarming trend towards complacency and utmost trust in any figure resembling authority, and frankly I think it reflects the degradation of society's moral and social values that people who showed some protest to continuing the experiment ultimately continued regardless.
i find it interesting how people cant tell that its a recording because every time he yells ouch it sounds the same and nobody questions it
Sanjiv Banavali
I think obediance is encouraged by a fear of punishment. I think the laughter could've meant a few things. I thought the laughter was in fact a way of relieving tension. Most of the volunteers were a bit disturbed by the sounds that they heard from the person who received the shocks. They said that they wouldn't go on any longer because "the guy said he had a heart problem and I don't want to kill him." One pressure that was placed on them was that they would be responsible for the guy's death even though the psychologist said it would be his falut. Also, the psychologist would keep telling the "teacher" to keep going and that it's essential that they keep going. THey decided to stop when they heard the guy on the other side say something like, "stop, enough, I have a heart problem." I did observe some people in Obediance because after they heard from the psychologist that they wouldn't be the ones responsible if anything were to happen they went on to higher voltage.
Kelly, I agree with what you said about people with weak personalities. They can very easily be manipulated and they could believe anything that someone tells them.
I fouund this video very interesting because, it made me think if i was in that situation, what would i do? Although I have no idea what i would do in this situation. I do know that im somoeone who tends to second guess myself so with someone elses re-assurances who is in a leadership permission or a permission of authority I can guess that it would be hard not to not follow.
I think that we are taught from the time we are very little to be obedient. I think that it depends on the authority figure and the individual who is to listen to the authority figure. I think that sometimes it is a fear of punishment, other times it is to please, sometimes it is to fit in with the group, and sometimes it is because they trust the authority. I think that often it is a combination of all these things.
I think that the laughter was because they were nervous and were trying to hide how uncomfortable they were with the situation. I think they were relieving the tension that they were feeling, this is why the teachers were laughing, I think. They were pressured to continue the experiment even when they started to question the safety of the student. The ones who decided to stop did so when they felt that they were causing too much pain to the student and if they took responsibility for the student’s condition.
I agree with Kelly about the weak personalities playing a major role in the experiments. Ethan, the teachers only heard the recording one time, while they were in the room. Because they only heard the sequence once, they would not know that it was repeated for all the other teachers. The point of the recording is to see how different people react to the same situation.
This video was really a great example of how people under the direction of an authoritative figure will do anything they are told as long as the blame does not lie with them. The idea that it is not your fault is comforting when people know they are doing something wrong.Internally everyone of those test subjects disagreed with what they were doing, but with "encouragement" from the professor most sheeple just keep on flipping switches. The people who don't continue, and take a stand against authority is something that we should all strive to have within reason. There is a time to resist and a time to comply. And wouldn't you hate to have that lady as your teacher?
I think that as a society we've certainly been brought up to be incredibly obedient and submissive to others. Like Jon said, I think that most humans have a natural tendency to want to be guided in situations; we are eager to follow rules because the idea of "rules" or commands offer a stability. Our society works this way- there's the law, and people follow it because they're told; it's not up to debate whether or not it's the right thing to do because it's a form of governance/authority. I can understand why there was nervous laughter in the film. In this case I think it was to relieve tension The "teachers" may have laughed to subconsciously detach themselves from the seriousness of the situation. I was very surprised by the amount of teachers that continued to the highest voltage and I don't understand how they didn't have a sense of responsibility, even if indirect. I agree with Elaria with the McDonalds one- I was shocked that a blind phone call could have so much influence over the employees-It really shows how vulnerable people are.
It makes me wonder... how my whole life people around me say they want to empower me to be an independent adult and a strong person. But are we?
I think the Milgram experiment stems from humans' inability to understand who they are and who they want to be. So many people go through life drifting and floating, not learning or reflecting upon the characteristics they want to have as a person. Like Kelly said, they have "weak" personalities however I like to think of it as allowing the world dictate who they are instead of them chosing who they want to be. I also think it goes along with being strongly connected to your morals. If those people knew that it was wrong to submit a person to any kind of pain and were confident in their own skin- speaking up for what they believe is right... no one would have made it passed 150 volts.
This movie is interesting because it really shows how far some people are willing to go if they are not held responsible for thier actions. This shows how some og the nazi guards at the death camps could sleep at night because they werent thinking that they were responsible just following orders.
this video was very interesing seeing it twice really made me think about how one could do such a thing back in the nazi days. When a human hears another human in pain they kinda think about what there doing. it seems as if the nazi's in germany really didnt have human emotions, because even doing what your told has its limits.
This was a very interesting video, and it made you think to yourself. It made you think about how far you would go if you were in the shoes ofthe teacher. Its a very good question and a test of morality.
I have seen the video before, but it is scary how many people wouldnt stand up and say something, they were following orders, and for that it was okay.
it is absurd how so many people can do terrible things to each other just because they were told to.
And as known the germans gave the same excuse for killing so many people. People doesnt stop to think about or to stand up for themselves and for what they believe, and thats the reason so many things happen in history the way they did.
I've seen this movie a couple times and every time I try and think what I would do in that situation, but I never come to a definite answer. People don't know how they will react to a situation till they're put in it. This video really helped me understand how Hitler was able to create Nazi Germany and the destruction of Jews. I think people have it instilled in them at a young age that they need to follow authority figures and that if they please those figures they may be rewarded.
This video offered a very interesting perspective on the power authority has over people. when people believe that they are merely "doing what they were told to do", they don't feel responsible for their own actions regardless of their outcome. This experiment was clearly a microcosm of what happened in Nazi Germany. With the belief that they were simply obeying their authority, the people would comply to anything, even murder.
I find that obedience is encouraged through respect. The more respect I have for someone, the easier of a time I have respecting them. When I watched the film, I as well laughed at times. I found that I did not laugh because I found something funny but because perhaps I was relieving tension. I can say say though that in this case, tension relief was the main cause of laughter in the class. I noticed that a good majority of the volunteers also had nervous laughter. They claimed that they were only following orders just like the nazis.
Evan's experience to how this movie affected him is very similar to mine. I also took physcology and veiwing the film for a second time was much different becuase I did not laugh when I saw and heard the people yell hysterically.
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