Friday, December 4, 2009
Period 1 - "The Milgram Experiment"
Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority? As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case? How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say? What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop? Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience? Post your reflective comment by the end of the weekend and be sure to make a comment to another student’s post.
22 comments:
Obedience in fact something psychological and it is hard for us, human beings, to really go against it since when raised from an early age we have been taught to obey older people, with a position higher than us. People usually fear punishment when going against authority because that's what has been taught to us since we were little. When people were being the teacher, I believe that they laughed from nervousness and by not knowing what to do. People sometimes forget that they have a choice and something called "free will" which in this country especially is something highly respected but not always followed. People were being put on the spot and expected to obey, although a few of them didn't, I probably wouldn't either if I'd put myself into the learners position. They would react upon listening to the other complain but they felt the need to go through with the program because what they considered an "authority figure" was telling them to do so. It is very hard to go against the "wave" but those who do, usually take advantage of what us, human beings, call free will. Like the Renaissance physolophers said, we all have the rights we were born with, being one of those free will.
I agree with Marissa, the experiment depended on how the subjects were brought up i believe. Because we as human beings in the 20th and 21st century have been brought up, obeying the rules of our parents, our elders, our teachers, basically anyone who has authority. Although we do have the ability to make our own choices, many of us don't really know how to do so. If the experimenter had told them that it could kill them, not a signle person there would've gone through with the experiment, all of us as people are brought up to believe the elders and in Hitler and all of of germany's case this applies. Germany believe that Hitler was doing the right thing and that they should obey.
Its was funny to watch the film because people beleive that the student was getting hurt but still the teachers wouldnt stop emmediently they assisted on going on until they completely felt bad about the student and his heart condition. the last teacher for the experiment when the student stopped communicating it was rediculous to me how the man felt like the was dead or whatever he believed but he did think something bad had happen to the student but continued shocking him with the highest vault because the Milgram ordered him to continue on..
waiting for lazy erin M to make a comment she takes soo long
obedience is something that we should all learn from the beginning. we need to be trained to be obedient. and being obedient gives yyou a sence of pleasing others. and in the experiment, the teacher always was disobedient by not listening to the experimenter when he kept saying to keep going with the experiment but they only were disobedient because they were sympathetic for the learner who always sounded like they were in extreme pain. but also they used the shock as a fear for the learner to be obedient aswell.
woah tmoney way to be a jerk
waiting for lazy erin M to make a comment she takes soo long
Out of all the volunteers in the experiment, I unfortunately identified the most with the volunteer who went all the way up to the highest voltage. I probably would have done the same thing that he did if I was in his shoes. My reasoning would be that I agreed to be in the experiment, and if I didn’t complete it, then I would be ruining it for the people that were running the experiment. I know that if I were running an experiment, I would be pissed off if my subjects refused to complete it. I would have felt really terrible for the guy I was shocking, but I would have trusted that the people running the experiment knew what they were doing and that he would be just fine.
Also, on whether obedience is due to a fear of punishment or a desire to please, I would say that it is some combination of the two. As I just stated, I would have obeyed the experimenter in the Milgram Experiment out of a desire to please. But when I think about why I’m obedient in school, it’s mostly because I’m afraid of the repercussions if I don’t. So I definitely don’t think it’s one or the other; rather, it’s both.
I think there are many different reasons that encourage obedience; in different situations, fear of punishment, a desire to please, a need to go along with the group, and/or a belief in authority encourage obedience in people. I think in the experiment the biggest reason for the obedience was a desire to go along with the group and a belief in authority.
The volunteers thought the experimenters knew exactly what they were doing so they just followed their instructions. The volunteers didn't know much about how the experiment worked so they just allowed the experimenters to dictate their actions to a certain level. I think the students that laughed during the film weren't laughing because it was funny,but because it was more uncomfortable to watch someone who believes their torturing someone so they laughed off that nervous energy. So the laugher was trying to relieve tension while uncomfortable but also expressing relief that it wasn't them that was "on the spot" performing that experiment. All of the volunteers I saw looked really uncomfortable adminstering the shocks and were fidgeting and nervous, while also always double checking with the experimenter that they weren't liable. The pressure that was placed on them was how much harm they were willing to cause another human being and they eventually decided to stop when that pressure became too great. I probably most identified with the guy who stopped near to the beginning. At first he would administer the punishment and was getting uncomfortable. Then he eventually got so uncomfortable, that he made sure that he wasn't liable for anything and that these shocks were not harming the person inside. Eventually he just refused to continue administering shocks. I just think that I would start out doing it, but eventually would stop caring about what the experimenters wanted and just want to make sure the guy I was administering the shock too was ok.
I agree with Marisa and Jesse that a lot of it is due to how we are raised and that we are constantly raught to obey people with a higher authority than us in society. This definitely makes it more difficult to go against the authority that you have been taught to obey since you were a child.
I feel that many of the people in the experiment were obiedient because they felt that the experimenters were more knowledgable than themselves, and they therefore allowed they're better judgement to be over ruled by the experimenter's orders. I also think that many people do subconciously enjoy inflicting pain upon others, and were able to continue shocking the learner because the responsiblity was not placed upon them but on the experimenter. The students who laughed during the film, including myself, did so because the reasoning the shockers used to continue shocking was quite absurd. I believe that obiedience is encouraged by different factors in different situations that can range from a desire to be a part of something larger than ones self to fear of punishment to ignorance, all of which allow people to follow orders that are seemingly immoral. In the case of Nazi Germany, however, the ethics of society were altered so that commiting acts of cruelty towards Jews was made socially acceptable so Germans could commit terrible acts without moral consequences.
I think that it depends on the particular situation when establishing what drives obedience the most but I agree with Chris that the main reason for the obedience in this experiment was a desire to go along with the group and a belief in authority. I also think that as students were laughing throughout the film, they were merely trying to hide their uncomfortable nature but laughing it off and releasing the tension they felt. The volunteer continue with the experiment because the authority figure told them to do so, therefore they were just obeying orders. I identified most with the man who was reluctant to continue after just a short time because I would not be able to continue with the experiment after hearing the pain that I was causing the other person.
I agree with Marisa in that it depends on how the students were brought up. If they were taught to think for themselves they may have been one of the few to stop listening to the experimenter earlier on. I think that most people, after hearing that the man couldnt be harmed or that if he did they wouldnt be responsible, felt they needed to listen to the instuctions and continue the experiment. I also think that laughter was a sign of discomfort and occured when people didnt know how to handle the situation they were in. I think that if i were in that situation i would have stopped the experiment as soon as the man sstarted making noises showing discomfort. However i see why some people did not.
I think a fear of punishment is part of what encourages obedience but I think a bigger part is a sub-conscious desire not to disappoint an assigned 'authoritative figure'. I think the reason some students laughed when they watched the film is because they were embarrassed that if they were in the same position they might do to the same thing and because they were relieved it wasn't them. The volunteers all seemed to think what they were doing was wrong but still allowed themselves to be pressured into doing it, even at the expense of others. I felt bad for the volunteers because they all seemed very torn between what they thought they should do and what they were being told to do. I agree with Max when he says that most of the volunteers probably listened to the people running the study because they thought they were more informed. I think when people have no experience or knowledge on a subject they tend to take someone else's word for it instead of acting off of their own instincts.
i believe that this video demonstrates the natural power of an authority figure in the human mind. I dont believe that society or American culture are at fault for what happens in this tape. This shows a weakness of the human brain that when put under pressure, the brain will often recieve and follow orders, even while witnessing the awful outcome. It is very immature for anyone to watch this tape and then immediately say that they wouldnt have followed instructions, because though after viewing the tape the subjects appear to be heartless, you simply cant make a broad statement like that unless you have been in that situation. That very ingnorance is the reason people find this so shocking, i believe more tests like this may reveal valuable information about how the human brain functions
Nimish Sahani
I thought it was good experiment, but i felt bad for the teacher cause they were the ones giving the shock, though no one finsied at last and i felt bad for the teacher who tried not giving the shock but they still did. I sgree with marisa i love how she words everything.
The teacher in the film we watched kept saying that he did not want to continue with the testing and that the student should be checked on, although he continued asking the questions. This just goes to show how much having a powerful, persuasive leader can make people hurt eachother.
This film was very interesting to me. The 'teachers' would be too concerned for the learner's health and not continue, unless told by the expirimentor that the responsibility for the listener's health would not be the teacher's. the man with the white hair who continued the questions until the 450 watt setting seemed very nervous and clearly didn't want to be sitting there.
I thought this film was quite interesting especially because the volunteers were willing to inflict pain upon one another. Though the experiment required the teacher to shock the learner everytime he got an answer wrong, it didn't make any sense to me that they would agree to such an experiment. I mean normally when one hears the term "electric shock" you wouldn't want that to happen. However Marissa said it was a matter of obidience. The volunteers had to follow a set of rules in order to complete the experiment. And in the end it was up to the volunteer ti decide the outcome of the other person. I probably would have have been like most of the people and stop once I heard the person was in pain. However I know that I probably shouldn't agree to the experiment once I hear what it requires
I agree with Raven, where there is a combination of things that make people "go along with the crowd" and follow direction even if they're going against something that they believe in or feel is right. I think the reason for laughter, for me was that the whole experiment was ridulous that some people would think that it's okay to give people shocks of that voltage. I know I was laughing because I couldn't get over how much people turned into pushovers when an "authoritive figure" told them to keep going. Although I respect elders and seniority, there's a line which must be drawn and nobody in the experiment was aware that they had the ability to do so. This definitely brings up the point that Marisa brings up, that people forget that they don't have to follow the crowd. I see it driving, when people just follow the car in front of them and they don't realize that a whole lane is empty next to them. This applies a little bit to the people in the experiment. People forgot that they were going against something that is wrong and that they weren't actually being forced to do it to a point where they could definitely not walk away. They didn't have a gun to their head to finish the experiment. The Milgram Experiment was a shocking display of human behavior which I could never have predicted the results to.
I had a hard time wathcing the experiment before and after I found out that the "learner" was not being shocked. Before, it was hard to listen to somoen get shocked and then shout out in pain. After, it was hard to watch some of the teachers continue to shock the learner even after they heard their pain. I did not think that I identified with anyone involved in the experiment. But if I had to choose I would probably act as the first teacher who refused to continue with the experiment after he heard the learner's pain. I too would not be able to continue. I believe that people are obedient baased on their upbringing and blame. If a person was brought up to follow orders regardless, then that person will obey. I agree with Marisa and Jesse in that regard. Also, if one would not be blamed for any negative obedience, it would be insentive for that person to continue.I also think, like Sam, that people obey out of fear. If there is a consequence to not obeying, people will probably just do as they are told. There was an observation made by the narrator that people were showing signs of nervous laughter. I think the word nervous is key. The teachers are trying to do their job, they know they are hurting someone but they are not allowed to stop so they dicomfort with the situation can be shown through laughter. The pressure that the teacher faced was continuing to shock even after they heard pain from the learner. The experiment certainly revealed a lot about the human condition and many of those charcacteristics can also be seen during the Nazi Rule.
MAny factors contribute to obedience. Soetimes it is morality, other times it is respect, and often it is fear or ignorance, or some awful combination of both.I found laghing at the film impossible. i think when people are confronted with scenarios where they themselves quetion what they would do if it were them, they become uncofortable. for some laughter is a coping mechanism for feeling uneasy. Most of the volunteers found it funny ast first, but gradually grew more uncomfortable and reluctant. They were pressured by the leader of the experiment and told they "must" finish. Their morality, and personal level of obedience determined when or if they stopped. i didn't really identify because i know i would never agree to participate in such an experiment in the first place. regardless of what i was paid. i just don't have the stomach for it.
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