Thursday, December 4, 2008
Milgram Experiment - Period 2
Milgram has defined obedience as “the psychological mechanism that links individual action to political purpose.” What do you think encourages obedience? Is it fear of punishment? A desire to please? A need to go along with the group? A belief in authority?
As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? Is it because something was funny or was there another reason? Those who study human behavior say that laughter can be a way of relieving tension, showing
embarrassment or expressing relief that someone else is “on the spot.” Which explanation is most appropriate in this case?
How did the volunteers act as they administered the shocks? What did they say?
What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? How did they decide whether to stop?
Did you identify with any of the volunteers you observed in Obedience?
Post your reflective comment by the end of the day on Friday, December 5th and make a comment to another student’s post on Saturday, December 6th.
Mr. Gallagher
23 comments:
Evan M.
I think people will obey there ledaer for many reasons. One may be fear of punishment. Another may be trying to fit in with a group or just trying to get the person to like you. Many people will anything when over come by fear, even confess to things they never did or or even to things that never happened. You can also become almost brain washed when you try to get someone to like you. People may publicly humliate themselves or even hurt another just so that group or person likes them. That's what obedience is about.
I believe that the laughter at first was a sign of thinking it was funny, but more in the sence that this is ridiculous.
As the volunteers administered the shocks, they acted as though they knew they were doing something wrong. They would constantly say words of concern for the student.
Pressures such as being the one conflicting pain on the other person, and having the thoughts that if they stoped they would mess up the experiment and not get paid, yet if they continued, they are putting the other person through pain and risking their life. They decided to stop becuse they knew what was going on was hurting someone else. They have the courage to stand up for what they believe is right.
I did not really identify with any of the volunteers a hundred percent, because on the first yell, i would have been like "yea that's not making them feel too good." I personally don't like to conflict pain on anyone, therefore I would be hesitant to accept the experiment. However those who had the courage to say no are the people I identify the most with.
Jillisa S.
At teh begining of almost evry experiment on the subjects ( Teachers), most of them laughed to the screams andnoises that the student was making. thinkin it was funny..but the further they went on the scale the lessliekly they were to laugh; some got to the point that they couldnt handle the torture the Student was enduring and they aborded the experiment. Others followed orders n direction to thier own will. they were not being held agaisnt thier will or threaten of any sort. they felt or at least knew t\what they were doing was wrgon but they keep going because they were told to do so.
A voluntary experiment which for some of the cases seemed more like an Obligated thing. as teachers they were being obedient to the directions of the instructor..kuz he seemed in a more higher position than the Teacher so they felt as if they had to obey his direction and keep on going witht he experiment no matter if the student was bieng tortured or what not.
- I think that obedience is encouraged by the individual's want to feel good about themselves. I think that people act with a constant self-interest at all times whether they show it or not. This was demonstrated by the last teacher in the film. Although he kept saying that he wanted to stop and check on the student, he listened to the observer's orders. He wanted to follow orders and make himself feel like a good person by showing interest in the other person's well-being while remaining at the table inflicting voltage on the student. He never intended on getting up and leaving the room to help the other man, he never intended on helping the other man or checking to see if he was okay.
- I think that the laughter in this case was a "nervous laughter", not necessarily a sinicle, sadistic laughter. I think the most appropriate reason is that they were relieved that they chose "teacher" rather than "student". It was a 50/50 shot and they were "lucky" enough to get away without hundreds of volts of electricity running through their bodies.
- Most teachers laughed and expressed their concern for the other party. Many of them resisted the observer's orders. Many people refused to continue after the student expressed their pain and, in some cases, finally stopped responding. Many of the teachers, however, did not stop. They wanted to check on the other man, and make sure he was alright, but many of them did not stop despite their expression of dislike for what was happening.
-The observer ordered the teachers not to stop. He told them that the test could not be stopped and it all depended on them to keep testing. They told the teachers that nothing would happen to the students other than the test being painful. He assuered that the students would be alright and that it was critical for them to continue. They even told to teachers that if anything did happen to the student that it was not in their hands and that they would not be responsible.
- I feel like, and obviously hope, that i would have been one of the teachers to refuse to go any further after the student expressed their discomfort. I feel like i would be able to stand up and leave, and I could refuse to listen to the observer's orders.
I believe that obedience can be based on different things for different people. Some people obey because they want to feel a part of a cause or group. Others are afraid of repercussions that would come from NOT obeying. Others obey becaues they want the positive attention that may come along with it.
I think the laughter may come from nervousness or from being uncomfortable. Laughter is a way that many release tension or even showing disbelief at times.
The volunteers seemed uncomfortable during the experiment. Many tried to push the switches down quickly so the shock was shorter. Once there was protest from the man getting shocked they often showed concern. They asked if the man running the experiment could check on the man "learner" and also wanted to stop. Some continued based on simple nudges and comments from the experimenter. They said things like "I'm not going to do this anymore" or "Can you check on the gentleman. I think he's hurt." Some of them put limits on how much shock they would use and stopped then. Others stopped when they heard the screams in the other room.
The experimenter would tell the volunteers that they needed to keep going for the experiment. He also said things like "You don't have a choice." or "It is imperative that you continue please" The experimenter was very polite but very insistent.
I'm sure I would have felt just as uncomfortable as some of them did. I don't know how far I would have gone with the shocks. I'd like to believe that I would have been one of the volunteers who objected to the shocks at an early point but I don't think anyone knows how hard that situation would be until you're apart of it.
oh. This is Clarissa S. I posted the last comment.
I believe that obedience is based on belief in authority. The teachers who were unable to stop administering shocks to the learners were ones who believed in the authority figure. When the authority figure said, "you have no choice" the people who believed in the authority figure were the ones who simply could not resist the scientist's orders. It seems really strange that moral
responsibilities and the screams of the learner did not cause everyone to resist the authority figure orders. It really shows that it is not human nature to stand up to authority.
Victor Z.
In my opinion, being overwhelmed encourages obedience. People want to just follow orders because is easier than having to think and make decisions on their own. In addition, our educational system and work environment encourage listening to authority figures. It’s also wanting avoid the problems of being punished and a desire to please. Following the group is a factor as well.
As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. How do you account for that laughter? It was funny because we knew that no one was actually being hurt. I’m sure that there was also a little bit of nervous laughter due to the fact that people were doing bad things. Seeing human nature portrayed poorly is scary.
Volunteers got more and more nervous and skeptical. They were routing for the guy to get the answer correct. They laughed at first and then refused most of the time. They said things like “are you sure we should do this”, “I refuse”, and “will you take responsibility for this.”
What pressures were placed on them as the experiment continued? They were told that they must go on. They were told that the other person wasn’t in danger. They refused to stop for the most part once they were too worried about the other guy. Yeah, the guys who stopped early acted as I would have.
Zack L.
Based off of what i saw during the movie about the Milgram Experiment, i think that a belief in authority encourages obedience. I think this because the people knew that they weren't really trying to please anyone and that they weren't going to be punished for electricuiting the man because the experimenter took full responsibility. It's the belief that the experimenter is of a higher authority than the "teacher" in the experiment that makes the teacher obey.
I would explain some students laughter just as nerves. I was so disturbed at the begining of the film when they said that they would be shocking people, I almost asked to leave class. I believe the laughter from both the students watching the film and the actual teachers in the film was a way of relieving tension.
The volunteers who administered the shocks acted professional at first, they went along with the guidlines of the experiment. But most people began to question the experiment around the 150 volts because the man started yelling to get him out of there, and that his heart condition was bothering him. The teachers were concerned about the man. They began to ask if the man was alright, and some even said that they had a choice and that choice was to no longer participate in the experiment.
The was a lot of pressure put on the teacher as the experiment continued, and the volts got higher for each question wrong. They began to wonder if they were actually hurting the man. The pressure between what they wanted to do and what they were supposed to do was overpowering them and they came off as distressed and confused as to how to handle the situation.
I personally didn't identify with any of the volunteers that I observed in Obedience, but I think that if I was put in their position, I would have stopped administering the shock once the man started yelling to get him out of there, if not before.
Colleen Hester
I believe that the most important point that the movie made was that obeying is all about the belief in a “true authority.” Essentially everything we do in life is based off this same idea. It is the same reason we go to school. We belief that the people above us, such as teachers and parents, know what is best for us so we follow. This film shows that it was easy for the Nazi soldiers to follow Hitler because once they believed that Hitler was a true authority, they would do anything he says just like we do everything our parents say. It is human nature to believe in “true authorities”. The test subjects had no motivation to harm the people they shocked, but they still acted identically to the Nazis. Therefore, the extermination of Jewish people, by the Nazis, was able to be executed because it is human nature to obey those we believe to be “true authorities” rather than the distinct hate for another race.
Evan M.
I agree with what Victor Z said. People will do many odd things for a person in authorty, like the Nazis did with Hitler.
I agree with Rob...people view those higher than them as more knowledgeable and experience with occurrences in life therefore they know what's best...leading up to having many followers or people looking to them for guidance/authority.
~Jillisa S.
Going along with what Jillisa said, I also agree with Rob. The idea of a true higher authority can cause people to view them as "all knowing", so we listen, believe, and trust what they have to say.
Colleen H.
Matt D-
I watched the movie and kept thinking about how i would act when that was me reading the questions. I thought that i would be able to stop but if i think about it if a doctor told me to keep going back then i believe i might have kept going im not sure. I did laugh a little during the movie and this was because of how people reacted to the commands of the doctor. I believe that i wasn't laughing because of what was happening just because of how they responded to it. Also i believe that how people acted was not completely there fault. I think they didn't know what was going on so the 50 % that continued didn't know what to do. I really was impressed by the movie and how they got so many people to keep going.
Matt D
I agree with Zack that we laughed because we knew that no one was actually getting hurt. This dramitic irony was certainly humorous, but i think there is another reason we laughed. When one man started to cry in the film, some students still laughed. I dont consider this man crying as funny. Therefore, i think it was a nervous habit that people used. I was actually quite uncomfortable during the movie, but i sitll think it was a good experience to watch. That experiment has taught me a lot about human nature.
I agree with Matt, I had the same reaction throughout the movie. It seems really intimidating being in that situation and you don't really know if you should keep going or not. The Scientist was really calm when he responded to the teachers questions and acted as though everything was alright so you would think that it would be fine to keep on going.
-Saqib Z
Evan,
I think you made a bunch of incredibly insightful comments. I love the point you make about people confessing to things they never did when under pressure and how this relates to obedience. I think certainly people can find themselves doing the most out of character things in order to please others. After thinking about it, seeing the movie, and reading your blog, I have come to the conclusion that people are terribly afraid of being alone or unwanted. Think about it, what would life be like if you had no friends and no one to interact with or feel compassion for?
Zack L.
I agree with what victor said about how its tough for people to go against the authority figure. I know that many who worried by the screams of the man getting the schocks but it didn't cause many to stop because of what the authority figure says. Like Victor said. Great comment victor.
Matt D
i agree with zack about why people are so obedient. Being overwhelmed would push people to search for an answer. If there is a figure you trust supplying an answer it probably easier to go along with that since it seems like the only option. WE are taught to trust figures of authority like teachers, doctors, or political figures. In an overwhelming situation, it makes sense that people look to these figures for guidance.
-Clarissa S
Matt V.
I will use one of my homework passes on this assignment.
I believe that the fear of punishment, desire to please, need to go along with the group, and belief in authority all encourage obedience. As some students watched the film Obedience, some laughed. I account for that laughter because I think originally those people thought it was funny at first but then slowly realized that the film was actually very disturbing. Also they might have laughed because they were put in a stressfull situation and didn't know what to do in that situation. I think in this case laughter was a way of expressing relief that someone else is "on the spot". When the volunteers administered the shocks, some volunteers were skepitial and were concerned for the mans well being and others continued throughout the whole experiment as if it was nothing. Also many of the volunteers asked that if something were to happen that the doctor would be held with full responsability and they wopuld not be responsable for anything, even thought they were the ones pressing the buttons. As the experiment continued the volunteers were placed with the stress of the man yelling to stop the experiment because he couldn't handle it anymore. For some people that was enough to question the authority, but for many they were just reassured to continue the experiment with out any doubt. Some decieded to stop if they thought that the man was in danger and refused the authority to continue. While others continued, and said that Im not responsbile for what happens, and after the thrid time the man didn't answer to the shocks the person stopped the experiment. Other people continued throughout the whole experiment but were stressed and were laughing or crying. I personally did not identify with any of the volunteers I observed in Obedience. If I were in the volunteers situation I would definatley stop right after the man started screaming to stop the experiment.
-Brittany Murphy
I agree with what Victor said in that its hard to go against an authority figure. Because it makes you question if something is ok because the authority is telling you to continue and that they signed themselves up for this.
-Brittany Murphy
I believe that fear encourages obedience. I felt that many students were shocked by what they saw--I know I was. Many may have used laughter, because they had no way to react. The volunteers laughed as well, cried, and many protested to continue on with the experiment after 165 volts. The pressure of authority was placed on them as the experiment
continued and the fear of the condition of the victim. They decided whether to stop by their own will when they couldn't take the screaming anymore from the victim. I didn't feel I could identify with any of the volunteers I observed in this film, because I simply wouldn't be able to partake in such a harmful act.
I agree with Rob that the belief of true authority dictates our lives on a daily basis and has continued throughout the generations. The Nazi Youth must have complied with such drastic measures out of fear of the power of their authoratative leader, Hitler. During the experiment, the teacher was at the expense of the authority of the mastermind behind the experiment. The pressure that we face from others can have detrimental effects, as our free will often is exerted in actions that do not follow our values.
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